Army abuse trial collapses

In spite of the MOD (quite rightly) refusing to comment any further, Lord High Admiral Colonel Kemp of Troops Imperial Across the Galaxy wasn't short of some comments:

Col Richard Kemp, former British Army commander in Afghanistan, told the Mail on Sunday: "'This is extraordinary, I have never heard of a case of this scale.​
"If these charges are proven it will certainly be detrimental to the Army from a recruiting perspective.​
"But I am incredulous as well as surprised. While there must be some aggression in recruit training, what is alleged goes far beyond what is acceptable.​
Mr Kemp, why don't you shut the f&ck up?
I’d pay good money for the opportunity to push him down some stairs.
 
I am not in a position to comment on this case, and will not do so.. I am disappointed to find however that criticism has been levelled at the RMP and worried that suggestions made to civilianise yet more of the military function..

Can I just make the point, that the military, is not, cannot and will never be the same as civil society. It is the agency of last resort, and hence must be able to operate outside the strictures of peacetime society. It may be, for economic reasons, necessary to shrink the functions of the military in times of peace, but to suggest this is ever anything more than a temporary expedient, is folly in the extreme.

If the current military policing function is not working, then it needs to be fixed.. not abandoned! The reasons for its poor performance, are, I suggest, many and varied.. Some of it is undoubtedly down to a lack of investment in specialist functions and a lack of professional leadership and competency as a consequence. This is true right across the military support spectrum. A military in peace's job is to prepare for war and structure itself accordingly. Junior ranks and equipment can always be acquired; knowledge and expertise is only gained over time. The current dogma that "Technical" is the domain of NCOs and "Leadership" is for Officers is a dangerous over simplification!

The other side of the equation is however much more worrying. The intrusion of the law into an ever increasing swathe of human existence is proving to be quite the opposite of its touted intention. By shifting what was in the past merely bad behaviour into the legal domain, we have both expanded the role of those in authority and decreased the responsibility of those in charge.. so we end up with unaccountable authority and irresponsible leadership! In practice this seems to manifest itself in an total inability to judge what is important and what is not! Hence the effect we see when situations are allowed to mushroom themselves out of all proportion, resulting in witch hunts and wild goose chases, and wasting huge amounts of time, effort and money!

Finally we must not fool ourselves into thinking that this is happening in a benign environment.. Without getting to the level of tinfoil hattery, we need to be very clear that there are many individuals and groups around who are looking for any opportunity to undermine the military, what it does and what it represents. I remain unconvinced about the real aims of many lawyers from barrack room to Public Interest! ... and you can add Politicians and Senior Civil Servants to that group...!
 
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I really find this whole thing very strange, when I was in (RMP 85-07) all our training was to home office standards especially the more specialised roles (soco, polsa, interviewing vulnerable witnesses etc) and where there was a percieved lack of skill, money was no object. For example when in Brunei one of the top civil traffic accident investigators was flown out, together with a well known pathologist to deal with a TA. Wherever I served (mostly GPD) our actions and investigations were always checked rigourously to ensure it was to UK legislative standards and certainly would not have got to a CM without being signed off by ALS. I don't know the individual involved but I would be staggered if they have left themselves open as badly as they appear, time will tell.

For the record I never stitched anyone up, drunks were handed over to the guard commander with a verbal brief unless they were in arrest which was usually for assault or violence and if you played the game you would get dropped off a couple of hundred meters from camp and pointed in the right direction. There was no more amusing site of a Friday night than watching half a dozen drunks being led up hospital hill by a packet of chips held out in front of them.
Yes there are throbbers in all walks of life, but the RMP has no more than any other comparable group.
 
harking back to the '90s and the god awful 'Oak' on Hohne. Walking back towards the Caen Bks would take you past the RMP station. Cue. 'ere, mate. You got the keys? What f*cking keys? The f*cking monkeys! And lots of laughter at our barracks and white Sam browned associates.
My HQ was Hohne, I was based at Fally 92-93. ;)
 
A true professional then. With a need for a serious attitude adjustment.
I was one of the fairest, laid back Red Caps going. You would have had to have yanked my chain big time to get lifted, hence my "if" you failed the attitude test. I've seen night duties when I've been in the Sherpa minibus, I've filled it with waifs and strays several times dropping them off at camp. It got them off the street, saved them a taxi fare and saved me a mountain of paperwork.
 
I really find this whole thing very strange, when I was in (RMP 85-07) all our training was to home office standards especially the more specialised roles (soco, polsa, interviewing vulnerable witnesses etc) and where there was a percieved lack of skill, money was no object. For example when in Brunei one of the top civil traffic accident investigators was flown out, together with a well known pathologist to deal with a TA. Wherever I served (mostly GPD) our actions and investigations were always checked rigourously to ensure it was to UK legislative standards and certainly would not have got to a CM without being signed off by ALS. I don't know the individual involved but I would be staggered if they have left themselves open as badly as they appear, time will tell.

For the record I never stitched anyone up, drunks were handed over to the guard commander with a verbal brief unless they were in arrest which was usually for assault or violence and if you played the game you would get dropped off a couple of hundred meters from camp and pointed in the right direction. There was no more amusing site of a Friday night than watching half a dozen drunks being led up hospital hill by a packet of chips held out in front of them.
Yes there are throbbers in all walks of life, but the RMP has no more than any other comparable group.
That's very good to hear, but now I'm confused. If as you say, RMP are trained to and follow HO standards, then why do ex-RMP that apply to join civpol have to go through training school and probation? When I was at Hendon we had 2 ex-RMP in my intake and they didn't do any better or worse than those of us that didn't know our arrses from our elbows.
 
I was one of the fairest, laid back Red Caps going. You would have had to have yanked my chain big time to get lifted, hence my "if" you failed the attitude test. I've seen night duties when I've been in the Sherpa minibus, I've filled it with waifs and strays several times dropping them off at camp. It got them off the street, saved them a taxi fare and saved me a mountain of paperwork.
Wish I'd met you when I was a young Rfn...I'd have shared my kebab with you =-D;)

edited to ask, you are female aren't you? :oops:
 
I am not in a position to comment on this case, and will not do so.. I am disappointed to find however that criticism has been levelled at the RMP and worried that suggestions made to civilianise yet more of the military function..

Can I just make the point, that the military, is not, cannot and will never be the same as civil society. It is the agency of last resort, and hence must be able to operate outside the strictures of peacetime society. It may be, for economic reasons, necessary to shrink the functions of the military in times of peace, but to suggest this is ever anything more than a temporary expedient, is folly in the extreme.

If the current military policing function is not working, then it needs to be fixed.. not abandoned! The reasons for its poor performance, are, I suggest, many and varied.. Some of it is undoubtedly down to a lack of investment in specialist functions and a lack of professional leadership and competency as a consequence. This is true right across the military support spectrum. A military in peace's job is to prepare for war and structure itself accordingly. Junior ranks and equipment can always be acquired; knowledge and expertise is only gained over time. The current dogma that "Technical" is the domain of NCOs and "Leadership" is for Officers is a dangerous over simplification!

The other side of the equation is however much more worrying. The intrusion of the law into an ever increasing swathe of human existence is proving to be quite the opposite of its touted intention. By shifting what was in the past merely bad behaviour into the legal domain, we have both expanded the role of those in authority and decreased the responsibility of those in charge.. so we end up with unaccountable authority and irresponsible leadership! In practice this seems to manifest itself in an total inability to judge what is important and what is not! Hence the effect we see when situations are allowed to mushroom themselves out of all proportion, resulting in witch hunts and wild goose chases, and wasting huge amounts of time, effort and money!

Finally we must not fool ourselves into thinking that this is happening in a benign environment.. Without getting to the level of tinfoil hattery, we need to be very clear that there are many individuals and groups around who are looking at every opportunity to undermine the military, what it does and what it represents. I remain unconvinced about the real aims of many lawyers from barrack room to Public Interest! ... and you can add Politicians and Senior Civil Servants to that group...!
A good well-reasoned post.
 
The offences under discussion appear to be ordinary criminal acts (assaults etc) as far as UK law is concerned and happened on UK soil. IMHO they should have been investigated by the local plod.
Most of the charges were service discipline charges of “ill treatment of a subordinate “ and there could not be dealt with by civpol or civ courts where this offence does not exist
 
Most of the charges were service discipline charges of “ill treatment of a subordinate “ and there could not be dealt with by civpol or civ courts where this offence does not exist
Good point. Of course in civvy st, that would be dealt with by putting in a grievance with management, but it is a specific offence in the military. Hmmm!
 
Bollox, I was going to render you moist with my finest chat up line, but I'll not do that and you probably wouldn't have got a bight of my kebab...=-D
You'd have still got a free taxi ride back to camp for your cheek. :D and for the record, I'm a rough as feck, hairy arsed scouser. ;)
 

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