Army 2020: Government response published

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Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
Bit late now given the Army has already gone through 4 years of redundancy pain and reduced it's numbers by circa 20k in line with the 2020 structure.
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
I wonder when they'll start paying those who have recently left incentives to rejoin?
 
Key quotes that hit me:

p5: " ... the Chief of the General Staff (CGS) was then given broad freedoms to structure the Army as he saw fit ... "

p10: "The Defence Secretary and the Chiefs are confident that the plan will be delivered."

p11: "The Army is looking to make the initial training process for reserve recruits more coherent, acknowledging that these recruits have other demands on their time such as their permanent job and their families. We are applying as flexible an approach as possible."

In other words, if A2020 and FR2020 fail the Army is at fault, not the MoD, not politicians. And that seems to be the offical party line. Were this a film, you'd hear some quality foreboding music right around now.

p15: "A payment of up to £500 per month per reservist for Small and Medium Enterprises has been introduced, and will be paid on a pro-rata basis for days mobilised in the month."

p20: "We note that Reservists are cheaper to employ so long as they are not called up."

Absent a sudden jump in the economy or the Army budget we won't see the AR called out short of another TELIC/HERRICK. The money needed just won't be there. Put it another way, try convincing the CO of a Reg Bn stuck in Tidworth or some such hellhole that his mob should stay in barracks to free up the funds to mobilise the AR to do a jolly.

p23: "
In the event that there is an urgent requirement for extra manpower, the Army could draw upon the Regular Reserve, which is a pool of around 30,000 qualified and experienced individuals who have relatively recently left regular service."

The RR was called on in such a way for TELIC and failed miserably. Thus turning the then TA into the "Reserve of Choice". What, I wonder, has changed ?
 
E

EScotia

Guest
p20: "We note that Reservists are cheaper to employ so long as they are not called up."

That alone would make me wonder about the intelligence of those at the top of the MoD. Of course they're cheaper, they don't get paid if they aren't signed in or mobilised!
 
In brief summary:

p20: "We note that Reservists are cheaper to employ so long as they are not called up."

Hardly rocket science is it.

So basically employ minimal reservist to reduce overheads, tick the diversity boxes and employers are kept extra sweet financially. (strategicy economic gamble?)

It'll be the Army's fault for failing to deliver, everyone else just shrugs their shoulders off from any accountability.

Plenty of hardware investment, improved technology however most will be excercise only purposes as it'll cost too much overall to deploy long term.

SDSR 2015 is looking more like Billy Smarts circus everyday
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
Ah, but its not about the Army, its about securing your pension and next promotion.
 

lab1950

Swinger
So I have just read the first part of the report "Conclusions and recommendations" and have come to the conclusion that we are definitely now in a situation whereby the Armed Forces, especially the Army are no longer capable of defending the realm.

Add to quagmire mix the fact that Scotland may decide to go its own way on the 18th September 2014 you seriously have to say that what will be left of the United Kingdom would become defenseless

Might as well just arm our police force permanently and let them take over the "defense of the realm" then disband the Army altogether.
 
A poorly drafted paper of nothing but wants & desires as long as:

Minimum AR call up involvement (Telic/Herrick significant contribution)
Significantly rely more on NATO (yes really Ukraine anyone? Mr Putin?)

ISIL only have to get lucky in the UK once no matter how poor the attempt.

At least we've a 2nd AC for the senior service so we're not being completely shafted...
 
Interesting that you'd rate it bullshit, as its entirely possible to have, say, an infantry Section commander on a few hundred quid per day instead of the equivalent, current regular Army rate.

See http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/ge...A_Financial_Assistance_for_Reservists.pdf.pdf

or

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/859/contents/made

Be interesting to see if you accept you're the one who's wrong QRK2, and stop yourself posting bullshit bullshits until you've at least researched your position.
 
E

EScotia

Guest
Interesting that you'd rate it bullshit, as its entirely possible to have, say, an infantry Section commander on a few hundred quid per day instead of the equivalent, current regular Army rate.

See http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/ge...A_Financial_Assistance_for_Reservists.pdf.pdf

or

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/859/contents/made

Be interesting to see if you accept you're the one who's wrong QRK2, and stop yourself posting bullshit bullshits until you've at least researched your position.
It's also possible, in fact more than likely probable, that the vast majority of the Army Reserve that deploy cost no more per deployment than a regular. In fact if you take away their share of accommodation costs then a Reserve works out cheaper.
 
It's also possible, in fact more than likely probable, that the vast majority of the Army Reserve that deploy cost no more per deployment than a regular. In fact if you take away their share of accommodation costs then a Reserve works out cheaper.

Except your just guessing that its the vast majority, although Im wiling to concede that I don't have any figures either.

As to accommodation costs, the reservist will cost the same as a regular.

My post wasn't referring to peace-time locations, as I specifically mentioned them being more expensive when called up.

I didn't mention anything about peace-time costs or the cost when they're not called up.

I would also suggest that it isn't probable that they cost less either, since the average civilian wage is c.£26,000 per annum. And I would presume if we were going to select people to be called up, that they would be SMEs in some field (such as medical professionals, Engineers, IT blokes etc who will earn more than the average UK wage).
 
E

EScotia

Guest
Except your just guessing that its the vast majority, although Im wiling to concede that I don't have any figures either.

As to accommodation costs, the reservist will cost the same as a regular.

My post wasn't referring to peace-time locations, as I specifically mentioned them being more expensive when called up.

I didn't mention anything about peace-time costs or the cost when they're not called up.
Accommodation costs will not be the same for regulars and reservists when deployed. Accommodation has to be kept empty for regulars when deployed so they have spaces to return to post ops therefore there is a cost per bedspace not being charged therefore adding to the cost of deploying a Regular. Reservists once discharged through RTMC return to their private accommodation.
Most Reservists will not have jobs that warrant extra call up money to replace lost wages. That's not a guess, more of an estimate therefore Reservists don't cost more to call up, unless of course you factor in the extra MTD's needed to prepare them to deploy but I'd offset that against the impossibility to keep Reserves ready to deploy unless extra MTD's were available for all (therefore a cost saving).
 
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Accommodation costs will not be the same for regulars and reservists when deployed. Accommodation has to be kept empty for regulars when deployed so they have spaces to return to post ops therefore there is a cost per bedspace not being charged therefore adding to the cost of deploying a Regular. Reservists once discharged through STMC return to their private accommodation.
Most Reservists will not have jobs that warrant extra call up money to replace lost wages. That's not a guess, more of an estimate therefore Reservists don't cost more to call up, unless of course you factor in the extra MTD's needed to prepare them to deploy but I'd offset that against the impossibility to keep Reserves ready to deploy unless extra MTD's were available for all (therefore a cost saving).

Ill give you that one, I didn't think about the cost of keeping the room open - although I would expect that to be part of the running costs of MoD infrastructure rather than a cost associated with individual soldiers.
 

jrwlynch

LE
Book Reviewer
I would also suggest that it isn't probable that they cost less either, since the average civilian wage is c.£26,000 per annum.

So when called up the costs are comparable: Reservists need the same PDT as regulars, so no more expensive there; and when you're not calling them up they cost peanuts compared to paying a regular their salary, pension, housing, CEA year in and year out...

Makes the Reserves look like a bargain, really, which is why we're headed in the direction we're going.


And I would presume if we were going to select people to be called up, that they would be SMEs in some field (such as medical professionals, Engineers, IT blokes etc who will earn more than the average UK wage).

That's a dangerous and heretical thought; remarkably few reservists other than the medics have anyone care what your day job is or take it into account when deciding how to use you. (I'm lucky, my unit does, but it's dark blue not green).

I'd be pretty sure that currently, if the regular Army were to declare "we need eight chartered civil engineers and half-a-dozen Sharepoint MCSEs", they'd have no idea who had what; it's not been considered important or relevant so the information isn't collected, stored or used. Occasionally someone with relevant skills, quals or experience ends up near the relevant problem - usually completely by accident - and chips in to offer help; sometimes they're allowed to, other times they're told to shut up and get back to guard duty.
 

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