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Army ‘to be cut by 20,000’ if No 10 plan is approved

The little ******* gnomes who insist that OS is like a state secret do my head in.

I really like it when they then stick random descriptors on it: -"LIMCIRC Internal Eyes Only Not For Transmission on the Internet" is a real favourite...
 
The little ******* gnomes who insist that OS is like a state secret do my head in.

I really like it when they then stick random descriptors on it: -"LIMCIRC Internal Eyes Only Not For Transmission on the Internet" is a real favourite...

"My secret is bigger than your secret" :cool:
 
"My secret is bigger than your secret" :cool:

but not so secret they actually put it on secret - because that would be hard work, and make the use PDRs and whatnot...
 
Which is fine, but they aren't military decisions.

Exactly. The military does have a bit of an obsession with the Caribbean - but that’s not because anyone in the military cares. It’s because the govt gets embarrassed by OTs getting ravaged by storms and the military is the best agency for dealing with the aftermath.

Having been heavily involved with CSG21 the idea that these are the Navy’s ships is equally laughable. They belong to politicians who are willing to question and ignore professional advice if it doesn’t match their aims.

I’m sure the military would love to cut its commitments in the gulf. The Navy has been operating there outside DTs for ages. But there is all these pesky wealthy countries willing to spend money to keep us there. Who love the loan service posts. Our major global partner also wants some involvement. If we want it to keep its forces in Europe to keep Russia at bay then there needs to be some payback elsewhere.

None of which is military thinking.
 
Page 2 of today's Sunday Times. Turbulent times ahead for the MoD! Where's that salami that needs slicing?

'Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak are locked in a power struggle over money for the military after the chancellor axed the three-year spending review this week.

'The prime minister is demanding that the chancellor guarantee defence spending for three years so he can launch a defence and security review next month.

'But after daily meetings between the two last week, Sunak is digging in, arguing that the uncertainty about Covid-19 and Brexit rules out a long-term plan.

'Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, I fighting for a budget increase so that the armed forces can begin to make changes and keep sth promise made in the Tory manifesto that defence spending would rise by 0.5% above inflation each year. Sunak is resisting this.

Defence chiefs reacted with horror when they saw the Treasury's plan to cut spending deals to one year, with one senior officer saying "it cut the legs out from underneath" Johnson's integrated security, defence and foreign policy review.

'The review was expected to call for slimmer armed forces with greater cyber-warfare capability and fewer static assets such as tanks.

'But to move to single-year funding makes it impossible to launch a series of multibillion-pound hardware projects to counter Russian and Chinese weapons. A Whtehall source said: "Boris and Rishi have been having a row all week. Boris wants a three-year deal for defence. Rishi is absolutely determined not to give in."
 
"greater cyber-warfare capability" no requirement for this unless you're sending ships in, aircraft overhead or boots on the ground, just smoke and mirrors. One year funding, we'll be a laughing stock (more of a).
 
You don’t believe all that stuff that comes out of government and in the papers ?
No, but I do believe that a combination of the Brexit balls-up and the COVID-19 spending spree means that there will not be enough money to fulfil the wish list, unless someone decides to increase the public debt to astronomic levels.
 

Charles1948

On ROPS
On ROPs
The National Debt has already been increased to "astronomic levels" by measures taken to support the civilian economy. These measures have involved spending several hundreds of billions of pounds.

Couldn't additional billions, be spent on supporting the defence forces? Suppose, in 2021, the Defence budget was doubled. That would make only an insignificant difference to the overall increase in National Debt.

But wouldn't a doubling of the funds available to the Army, Navy and Air Force, make a very significant difference to their capabilities?
 

ste14w

War Hero
No, but I do believe that a combination of the Brexit balls-up and the COVID-19 spending spree means that there will not be enough money to fulfil the wish list, unless someone decides to increase the public debt to astronomic levels.

Or cut the benefits bill to sensible levels.
 

Dalef65

Old-Salt
No, but I do believe that a combination of the Brexit balls-up and the COVID-19 spending spree means that there will not be enough money to fulfil the wish list, unless someone decides to increase the public debt to astronomic levels.

Unless...?
I think you'll find the public debt already is astronomical.
And to be truthful, it's little to do with the leaving of the EU, which would have been manageable till Covid19 came along.
 
Page 2 of today's Sunday Times. Turbulent times ahead for the MoD! Where's that salami that needs slicing?

'Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak are locked in a power struggle over money for the military after the chancellor axed the three-year spending review this week.

'The prime minister is demanding that the chancellor guarantee defence spending for three years so he can launch a defence and security review next month.

'But after daily meetings between the two last week, Sunak is digging in, arguing that the uncertainty about Covid-19 and Brexit rules out a long-term plan.

'Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, I fighting for a budget increase so that the armed forces can begin to make changes and keep sth promise made in the Tory manifesto that defence spending would rise by 0.5% above inflation each year. Sunak is resisting this.

Defence chiefs reacted with horror when they saw the Treasury's plan to cut spending deals to one year, with one senior officer saying "it cut the legs out from underneath" Johnson's integrated security, defence and foreign policy review.

'The review was expected to call for slimmer armed forces with greater cyber-warfare capability and fewer static assets such as tanks.

'But to move to single-year funding makes it impossible to launch a series of multibillion-pound hardware projects to counter Russian and Chinese weapons. A Whtehall source said: "Boris and Rishi have been having a row all week. Boris wants a three-year deal for defence. Rishi is absolutely determined not to give in."


‘The review was expected to call for slimmer armed forces with...fewer static assets such as tanks.’

I thought we’d binned Chieftain decades ago?
 

Charles1948

On ROPS
On ROPs
Unless...?
I think you'll find the public debt already is astronomical.
And to be truthful, it's little to do with the leaving of the EU, which would have been manageable till Covid19 came along.

‘The review was expected to call for slimmer armed forces with...fewer static assets such as tanks.’

I thought we’d binned Chieftain decades ago?
Can the ever-recurring call for even "slimmer" UK armed forces, really be due to financial considerations?
The UK armed forces have already been diminished drastically. The Royal Navy - only about 20 warships left! And the Army, reduced to 4 infantry divisions, and 200 tanks! The RAF with no long-range bombers, and only about 100 fighter-planes!

As a civilian, I find this hard to understand. It can't be because the Treasury isn't able to properly fund our armed forces due to lack of money. Vast sums of money have been made available to deal with Covid-19.

So what is the explanation?
 
And the Army, reduced to 4 infantry divisions,

Well, the MoD PR machine has done a good job of pulling the wool over your civvy eyes!
 
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