Army ‘to be cut by 20,000’ if No 10 plan is approved

no real term pay rise in forever, pension getting reduced incessantly, redundancy terms slashed repeatedly, no promotion prospects, very high churn of new starters leaving the old and bold increasingly burnt out. easy enough to get Graduates looking for a first job in the door, but they don’t stay long, Other than that, it’s great.
Civil Service is still the Land of Milk and Honey compared to the majority of Private Sector work.
 
An obvious solution presents itself in the current mess and it is basically to offer those made redundant half pay in the Army Reserve i.e. either a 199 or 207 RSD contract depending on whether they are serving in a National or Regional unit. Given that AR is now fully pensionable under AFPS15, it means that trained manpower still has a job, still gets paid and still gets a pension at the end of it. It will keep the AR topped up for the next 5-10 years and then look at a GI Bill to get the youngsters in.
Its short term, but a good idea... am in favour of introducing some form of selective military training for 3-6 months, with maybe a reserve commitment for 1-2 years, to at least boost the overall figure of reserves to a factor above 1 in relation to active soldiers. My view is the voluntary aspect will fall with the active reduction as that is the historic trend.
 
They fundamentally misunderstood the reasons people join, which is odd because "they" or at least some of them were civil servants subject to some of the same motivations. Then again, the civil service has never experienced meaningful cuts so they had nothing to relate to.

Anyone (nearly) who will make a decent soldier can easily make better money and have an easier life in a civilian job such as a tradesman. People join because they want to be part of something bigger, an institution (yes I know that's not the only reason). But if the institution is in decline or seen as such, and the terms of the job get closer to a civilian job (job security, pension, etc) then people weigh their options accordingly.

Viewed from the inside of course many people would still say the job is worth it in terms of overall satisfaction, but I'm talking about the perspective of an 18-year-old deciding whether to go for the Army, or take that offer for an apprenticeship or college place instead, or a graduate looking at graduate programmes at major corporations that are institutions in their own right.
The assumption is we can recruit 60k no problem. I would put money on a reduced army, would reduce interest overall and within say 10 years, after the cuts you will see the Army short of numbers again and the voluntary reserves dropping proportionally.
 

Chimp

ADC
Perhaps the One Year Volunteer concept of the Central Powers in the 19th and early 20th century could be a Cummings Maxim.

A One-year volunteer, short EF (de: Einjährig-Freiwilliger), was, in a number of national armed forces, a conscript who agreed to pay his own costs for the procurement of equipment, food and clothing, in return for spending a shorter-than-usual term on active military service and the opportunity for promotion to Reserve Officers.​
The "one-year volunteer service" (de: Einjährig-Freiwilligen-Dienst) was first introduced 1814 in Prussia and was inherited by the German Empire from 1871 until 1918. It was also used by the Austro-Hungarian Army, from 1868 until 1918, and the Austro-Hungarian Navy. One-year volunteers also existed in the national armies of Bavaria, France and Russia.​

Given the Reservist concept is found deep within Tory DNA this might be a way forward for them and a doubleplusgood for bb. Better stop there otherwise I may become an unperson.
 
They fundamentally misunderstood the reasons people join, which is odd because "they" or at least some of them were civil servants subject to some of the same motivations. Then again, the civil service has never experienced meaningful cuts so they had nothing to relate to.


ETA have a link, image not displaying
 
That just makes it even stranger that they wouldn't understand why. Does the CS have the same trouble recruiting?
The CS isn't a bottom fed organisation like the military so turning the recruitment tap on & off doesn't cause the same issues down the line
 
Perhaps the One Year Volunteer concept of the Central Powers in the 19th and early 20th century could be a Cummings Maxim.

A One-year volunteer, short EF (de: Einjährig-Freiwilliger), was, in a number of national armed forces, a conscript who agreed to pay his own costs for the procurement of equipment, food and clothing, in return for spending a shorter-than-usual term on active military service and the opportunity for promotion to Reserve Officers.​
The "one-year volunteer service" (de: Einjährig-Freiwilligen-Dienst) was first introduced 1814 in Prussia and was inherited by the German Empire from 1871 until 1918. It was also used by the Austro-Hungarian Army, from 1868 until 1918, and the Austro-Hungarian Navy. One-year volunteers also existed in the national armies of Bavaria, France and Russia.​

Given the Reservist concept is found deep within Tory DNA this might be a way forward for them and a doubleplusgood for bb. Better stop there otherwise I may become an unperson.
Buying my own equipment, clothing and food? That sounds eerily familiar...
 
The CS isn't a bottom fed organisation like the military so turning the recruitment tap on & off doesn't cause the same issues down the line

Used to be, but now very few C Grades work their way up gaining job and institutional experience on the way.
Most are now 20 something Graduate blow ins with zero skills in time, people or task management.
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
An issue, as I see it, is you dont get promoted in the CS, you have to apply for a new job at a higher grade. Both a balls ache, and doesn't base the recruitment on talent, more on qualifications and evidence that matches the required 'behaviours'.
 
Perhaps the One Year Volunteer concept of the Central Powers in the 19th and early 20th century could be a Cummings Maxim.

A One-year volunteer, short EF (de: Einjährig-Freiwilliger), was, in a number of national armed forces, a conscript who agreed to pay his own costs for the procurement of equipment, food and clothing, in return for spending a shorter-than-usual term on active military service and the opportunity for promotion to Reserve Officers.​
The "one-year volunteer service" (de: Einjährig-Freiwilligen-Dienst) was first introduced 1814 in Prussia and was inherited by the German Empire from 1871 until 1918. It was also used by the Austro-Hungarian Army, from 1868 until 1918, and the Austro-Hungarian Navy. One-year volunteers also existed in the national armies of Bavaria, France and Russia.​

Given the Reservist concept is found deep within Tory DNA this might be a way forward for them and a doubleplusgood for bb. Better stop there otherwise I may become an unperson.
I think one year is too long and the opposition to general conscription is legion....... A shorter period for say 18 year olds, either along swiss lines of a full 21 weeks, or even less, a 12 week programme through MPC which massively expands to give kids say three months basic including individual weapons training and a guaranteed place in the army reserve for say 2 years and then regular recruitment is drawn from the AR.
 
An issue, as I see it, is you dont get promoted in the CS, you have to apply for a new job at a higher grade. Both a balls ache, and doesn't base the recruitment on talent, more on qualifications and evidence that matches the required 'behaviours'.

Don't forget the nasty sting in the tail of constantly changing TACOS.
Apply for promotion, loose existing conditions of service.
Naturally, I'm dead keen to loose a weeks annual leave and see my sick pay entitlement halved in return for not much extra wedge and a lot more grief..
 
Really?

Demonstrate with numbers
Shall I start with pensions? A civil servant earning on average £28,600 PA will retire with an pension of around £17,538. A private sector work on the same annual salary will receive around £6,412. The private sector worker would have to save 30% of his yearly income to retire on the same salary as the public sector worker.
 
Shall I start with pensions? A civil servant earning on average £28,600 PA will retire with an pension of around £17,538. A private sector work on the same annual salary will receive around £6,412. The private sector worker would have to save 30% of his yearly income to retire on the same salary as the public sector worker.
Are you sure about those figures? That pension seems rather high.
 
Shall I start with pensions? A civil servant earning on average £28,600 PA will retire with an pension of around £17,538. A private sector work on the same annual salary will receive around £6,412. The private sector worker would have to save 30% of his yearly income to retire on the same salary as the public sector worker.

You ARE aware CS pensions are not 'free'.?

And an 'average £28,600'? Thats the top end of the D Band.
At the time the article you cited was written, the average CS pay was £23,000.
As usual, Higher CS is included in the headline figure to make CS pay and pensions look stellar.
 

Chimp

ADC
I think one year is too long and the opposition to general conscription is legion....... A shorter period for say 18 year olds, either along swiss lines of a full 21 weeks, or even less, a 12 week programme through MPC which massively expands to give kids say three months basic including individual weapons training and a guaranteed place in the army reserve for say 2 years and then regular recruitment is drawn from the AR.
You missed the point - this is not conscription.
 
*Theres a lot who wouldn't join the army but would join a national defence force - that could extend to the airforce - It would be more difficult for the Navy - unless we define national as ez/eez and bring back coastal forces**
Which was the basis on which the Territorial Force was set up in 1908: for Home Defence only. However, if individuals within units wished to volunteer for Foreign Service they could.

Mind you when a few heavily armed Germans appeared over the horizon it did turn into a bit of a muddle with people volunteering on an individual basis and some not. Which is perhaps why after the requirement was binned with the introduction of conscription in 1916, it was never reintroduced at the end of the first unpleasantness.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
Thats why you recruit directly into the reserves


It may be beneficial to split again if not units then individual contracts into the Active reserve - (ex forces and people willing to deploy) and the TA who are home service only which would enable recruitment of those opposed to foreign adventures / believe defence is just that and starts at Dover.* A reserve MPGS if you will - They would be available for civil aid etc - but also create a pool of trained manpower (which can be conscripted) in the event we need it

*Theres a lot who wouldn't join the army but would join a national defence force - that could extend to the airforce - It would be more difficult for the Navy - unless we define national as ez/eez and bring back coastal forces**

**Tongue in cheek im well aware that unless hiding amongst Fjords etc the Lynx Sea Skua combo rather pointedly demonstrated the limitations of FAC's
Rotations would come around rather quickly!

Jan 2020 - 'The RAF’s operational headquarters for operations in the region is in Qatar at Al Udeid airbase, the hub of America’s air operations in the region. It is home to the RAF’s No 83 Expeditionary Air Group, which provides command and control to the 4 Expeditionary Air Wings supporting Operation KIPION and Operation SHADER in the region. The RAF also has use of Al Minhad airbase, United Arab Emirates, and Al Musannah airbase, Oman. The RAF previously used Ali Al Salem air base, Kuwait, during the 1990s to enforce southern no fly zones and during Operation Telic in 2003. The MOD does not comment on the location of Reaper remotely piloted aircraft in the Middle East.'


Plus, current or very recent:
AZOTIZE - annual Baltic Air Policing deployments to Estonia and Lithuania.
MASTERER - occasional support to Icelandic Air Policing. (2019)
NEWCOMBE - SH support to French Ops in Mali.
TORAL - SH support to RESOLUTE SUPPORT in Afghanistan.

along with the standing commitment in the FI.
 
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