Army ‘to be cut by 20,000’ if No 10 plan is approved

I think you've quoted Division liability rather than Brigade

Whether a matching division would be possible in an army of 50 - 60K i dont know- a simple fantasy orbat on a basic numbers count would suggest yes - but reality is never so accommodating

That US Division will have additional Corps and Army level support as well such as tank transporter regiments, 3rdline engineering, strategic communications - Likewise A British Division would also need to be supported by those as well and as in industry theres a minimum size overhead you need to function. The smaller the force / business / whatever the proportionally larger the liability.

So for example it could be you need 30000 men in unavoidable support / Admin / training roles - in an army of 50K yet only 35000 in an army of 150K
You lot could always look at the JGSDF, they generate alot of units with a minimal manning level, but they don't have to worry about commitments all over the world either.
 
I've just read the Guardian article.


Cummings seems hung up on drones in the way that Sandys was about surface to air missiles, with disastrous results for the RAF and UK industry.

It's amazing the difference a week makes - before word of the possible shape of the defence review leaked, I was pretty keen on Cummings shaking things up in Whitehall. The more it seems he believes drones and IT can win wars by themselves, the less keen I am.
Drones and IT may be areas we're a little short on. Countries like Turkey and Iran can produce drones in quantity and flog them to all sorts of players, and are developing IT skills that enable them to attack government networks.
The way the US carried on about Huawei and 5g shows they don't consider the threat marginal.
One way of maintaining reach and power with dwindling numbers of boots and other stuff is to increase efficient useage. Armed Drones doing oversight above a foot patrol might be cheaper that an AH64 and carry the same weaponry.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Probably considerably more expert than yourself, but you are just lashing out now as is usual when you are shown to be incorrect. Which fairly frequently.
You haven't shown me to be incorrect. You've just asserted something wrong* about how MOD does business, while two people who do have Whitehall experience and have taken part in this process have tried to explain the complexity that you've missed.

*In fairness, you're mostly right about how it should work in theory but that's just not how it happens in reality.
 
There really isn't, not always. At that point you'll need to turn or human engineer an asset, or effect physical entry. If you do the last thing it might as well be rough men with 'taches and a plentiful scale of Plastique.. You gonna reboot something do it with style.
you harden and air gap the research facility, and 100 miles away, a water pumping station goes offline......
 
Drones and IT may be areas we're a little short on. Countries like Turkey and Iran can produce drones in quantity and flog them to all sorts of players, and are developing IT skills that enable them to attack government networks.
The way the US carried on about Huawei and 5g shows they don't consider the threat marginal.
One way of maintaining reach and power with dwindling numbers of boots and other stuff is to increase efficient useage. Armed Drones doing oversight above a foot patrol might be cheaper that an AH64 and carry the same weaponry.
That's a fair point (about numbers). Will Cummings appreciate that UAV need a range of other capabilities, in order to be effective? Against a peer enemy, we'd need a decent - and a decent number of - mobile ground-based SAM for example? Infantry would need jamming kit, to protect from opposition micro-drones, etc.

Towards the end of the last major fighting in Idlib, the Turks used armed UAV very effectively against the Syrian Army. They pretty much shut down the Syrian ground offensive. The Syrians then deployed SAM systems to counter the Turkish UAV, and some were shot down (including by Turkish allies in error). In a peer v peer conflict, there might be a high attrition rate of UAV; this is all obvious but will it be to Cummings? If it is done in a 'To use A effectively, we need B, C, D and E' way, it might not be a complete mess.
 
you harden and air gap the research facility, and 100 miles away, a water pumping station goes offline......
And the slack is taken up by a hardened replacement running on a private line with hardware and software crypto..

The world has moved on since Stuxnet... And the chances of a repeat with that level of success are greatly diminished..
 
MOD is it’s own worst enemy.

it goes out to buy a dozen Ford Focus, spends Bentley money on them, then ends up with half the number of base model Fiestas 5 years late.

a very hard and enduring slap might encourage a culture change
Good point. I'm not sure what can be done re. procurement - the issues therewith are widely advertised and warned against: people are told 'Don't say "can we add x thingamy" to the spec at a late stage' but it goes on - it would take a much, much more clever and ruthless person than I to sort that out :) or even fully understand the issue.
 
Its a mathematical certainity the reserves will fall over the next twenty years, in response to a fall in active soldiers and as ever you jump on a thing without reading the response, which was in relation to other peoples reality that national service cannot be brought back.
If in doubt obfuscate and argue that you were arguing something you patently weren't. As ever, you remain in 1990. Names change. There's no reason why the Army Reserve shouldn't grow, more chance with a cut in regulars, whether it does is another thing - Regular intransigence being one of the biggest stumbling blocks.

The army don't want national service, the RN and the RAF certainly don't, only the 'kipperati, who are living back in 1980/90.
 
Top tip: We are a Parliamentary Democracy. Whether a Minister has 'served' is of zero import to his job.
If you want only 'served' to run and direct the Armed Forces, its the wrong country grommit
We're a Parliamentary democracy, whether the present government is fully signed up to that is another matter.
 
I've just read the Guardian article.


Cummings seems hung up on drones in the way that Sandys was about surface to air missiles, with disastrous results for the RAF and UK industry.

It's amazing the difference a week makes - before word of the possible shape of the defence review leaked, I was pretty keen on Cummings shaking things up in Whitehall. The more it seems he believes drones and IT can win wars by themselves, the less keen I am.
You could have read the original a few pages back
 
Good point. I'm not sure what can be done re. procurement - the issues therewith are widely advertised and warned against: people are told 'Don't say "can we add x thingamy" to the spec at a late stage' but it goes on - it would take a much, much more clever and ruthless person than I to sort that out :) or even fully understand the issue.
the relationship between the armed farces and UK defence suppliers is simply criminal.
the prime driver of procurement far too often Is the one eye on that lucrative non executive directorship a few years up the road.

my Honda dealer sits beside a Ford dealer. If I go to buy a Honda, I’d tell the Ford bloke to clear off it he said he could build me a better Honda for Kia money. It’s patently nonsense, but time after time, that’s exactly the sort of deal MOD gets itself into. And then when it falls flat, the guilty party who signed off on it goes works for Ford and sells MOD a regular Ford.
 
Top tip: We are a Parliamentary Democracy. Whether a Minister has 'served' is of zero import to his job.
If you want only 'served' to run and direct the Armed Forces, its the wrong country grommit
Although if we change served into "employed in a manner completely unrelated to politics for at least 5 years" before becoming an MP - we may well benefit from a more rounded parliament and of course certaon never left the student union types would have had their never left a safe political bubble ldeology challenged by reality.
 
Ahh that's cute, both of you sitting on the naughty step whispering bad things about the big boy. Careful, he may come round the corner and catch you at it.
Are you pissed?

Or - are you Mark Francois?

Both probably.
 
If we're clever we'll get him to commit billions for Artificial Intelligence and spend it on Armoured Infantry ;-)
You sound just like the "Remain" campaign team...
 
the relationship between the armed farces and UK defence suppliers is simply criminal.
the prime driver of procurement far too often Is the one eye on that lucrative non executive directorship a few years up the road.

my Honda dealer sits beside a Ford dealer. If I go to buy a Honda, I’d tell the Ford bloke to clear off it he said he could build me a better Honda for Kia money. It’s patently nonsense, but time after time, that’s exactly the sort of deal MOD gets itself into. And then when it falls flat, the guilty party who signed off on it goes works for Ford and sells MOD a regular Ford.
That's a pretty serious allegation - care to back it up with some proof?
 
the relationship between the armed farces and UK defence suppliers is simply criminal.
the prime driver of procurement far too often Is the one eye on that lucrative non executive directorship a few years up the road.

my Honda dealer sits beside a Ford dealer. If I go to buy a Honda, I’d tell the Ford bloke to clear off it he said he could build me a better Honda for Kia money. It’s patently nonsense, but time after time, that’s exactly the sort of deal MOD gets itself into. And then when it falls flat, the guilty party who signed off on it goes works for Ford and sells MOD a regular Ford.
Don't forget the theft material acquired whilst on duty.
It all added up.
You sound just like the "Remain" campaign team...
In the name of God, let us have some threads free from discussion of the 'B' word. Thank you.
 
There really isn't, not always. At that point you'll need to turn or human engineer an asset, or effect physical entry. If you do the last thing it might as well be rough men with 'taches and a plentiful scale of Plastique.. You gonna reboot something do it with style.
I believe he's booked the rough the men with 'taches for the foreseeable. Perhaps they can teach him what an air gap is,
 

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top