Army ‘to be cut by 20,000’ if No 10 plan is approved

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
If it's COIN or low intensity then we have air superiority and can drop a 5kg JDAM thro the top left hand window on the second house along the road. If we don't have have air superiority then it's not COIN/Low intensity so we can just remove that city block

so everywhere the Army operates in future, it will have high end fast air with PGMs overhead 24/7?
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
Regular mentions of CIVCAS with cry for international inquiries and effective media traps are far more effective and much cheaper against a Western opponent.

indeed, the journos will be busy putting child’s teddies and colouring books in the rubble in time for the 9 O’clock news.
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
Regular mentions of CIVCAS with cry for international inquiries and effective media traps are far more effective and much cheaper against a Western opponent.
Not disputed.
Indeed lesson #1 for anyone set on course for confrontation with West is collocate assets with civilians

But at some stage they might have to come out and play - which means that they have to find a counter to western air. Cheapest and easiest place is at the airfield. If West cheats and uses carriers then there is still the opportunity to attack tankers and surveillance airfields. OR indeed ground stations for long range drones...
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
so everywhere the Army operates in future, it will have high end fast air with PGMs overhead 24/7?
Suspect a large part of the logic of any sensor any shooter is to circumvent this constraint. And of course in (putative) COIN environment it doesn't need high spec fast air to be overhead.

Cue (yet) another lap of the A10 fan club....
 
Not disputed.
Indeed lesson #1 for anyone set on course for confrontation with West is collocate assets with civilians

But at some stage they might have to come out and play - which means that they have to find a counter to western air. Cheapest and easiest place is at the airfield. If West cheats and uses carriers then there is still the opportunity to attack tankers and surveillance airfields. OR indeed ground stations for long range drones...
What will they use to attack these “cheating aircraft carriers”?
 

Majorpain

War Hero
Suspect a large part of the logic of any sensor any shooter is to circumvent this constraint. And of course in (putative) COIN environment it doesn't need high spec fast air to be overhead.

Cue (yet) another lap of the A10 fan club....
Everyone always looks at what Air can do for land, in reality Land (if it has enough range) can do an awful lot for Fast air in a relatively cheap fashion. If you can get that targeting info (I imagine the DAS hoovers up a lot of info that's wasted mostly) passed around in a timely manner then those expensive, large and not especially mobile SAM systems are going to find operating becomes quite difficult.

 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
What will they use to attack these “cheating aircraft carriers”?
They won't.
But if I was an insurgent I would be very keen to disrupt the supply of aviation motion potion to carriers by attacking, impeding or seizing RFA type vessels and the ports they are working from.
 
They won't.
But if I was an insurgent I would be very keen to disrupt the supply of aviation motion potion to carriers by attacking, impeding or seizing RFA type vessels and the ports they are working from.
These RFA vessels that routinely carry RM‘s and have a embarked aviation asset?
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
These RFA vessels that routinely carry RM‘s and have a embarked aviation asset?
They're a softer target that has to come close to shore. Lots more weaponry on USS Cole didn't protect it.

ETA: I didn't say it would be easy. And of course if a rogue nation had or mislaid an SSK (even early model one)...
 

bob231

War Hero
They're a softer target that has to come close to shore. Lots more weaponry on USS Cole didn't protect it.

ETA: I didn't say it would be easy. And of course if a rogue nation had or mislaid an SSK (even early model one)...
This is getting into slightly silly territory.

Also, had the putative insurgents obtained an SSK that we had any knowledge of, the RFAs and carriers would be either sufficiently protected or safe in the knowledge that the SSK was decorating the seabed somewhere before they turned up. They're hard to conceal (in the sense that you own and operate one) and would be a very high priority target.

That and a boat strenuously avoiding detection is moving very slowly, if at all.
Regular mentions of CIVCAS with cry for international inquiries and effective media traps are far more effective and much cheaper against a Western opponent.
@fantassin - I've always believed that this was less true for France, as they need not deal with the Anglophone media and Francophone media is/was more supportive. Am I wrong here?
 
They're a softer target that has to come close to shore. Lots more weaponry on USS Cole didn't protect it.

ETA: I didn't say it would be easy. And of course if a rogue nation had or mislaid an SSK (even early model one)...
A early model SSK crewed by terrorists, I would suggest you stop reading Dale Brown and Tom Clancy.

It wouldn’t stand getting close to a Allied Warship, The RN sets the standard for ASW.
 
This is getting into slightly silly territory.

Also, had the putative insurgents obtained an SSK that we had any knowledge of, the RFAs and carriers would be either sufficiently protected or safe in the knowledge that the SSK was decorating the seabed somewhere before they turned up. They're hard to conceal (in the sense that you own and operate one) and would be a very high priority target.

That and a boat strenuously avoiding detection is moving very slowly, if at all.

@fantassin - I've always believed that this was less true for France, as they need not deal with the Anglophone media and Francophone media is/was more supportive. Am I wrong here?

The issues are very relevant in France too.

For example, Ops in the Sahel are more and more targetted by hostile reports generallly based on uncorroborated reports of "NGOs" often linked to insurgent or decolonial activists.
 
A early model SSK crewed by terrorists, I would suggest you stop reading Dale Brown and Tom Clancy.

It wouldn’t stand getting close to a Allied Warship, The RN sets the standard for ASW.

He forgot to mention the 'crewed by Russian mercenaries' bit.;)
 
He forgot to mention the 'crewed by Russian mercenaries' bit.;)
20766F2D-B238-45D4-85BE-64F0E9D32D94.jpeg
 

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