Army ‘to be cut by 20,000’ if No 10 plan is approved

DH3 was always due to go out of service around now anyway.

Eh ??

1614947690485.png
 
72,500 is the touted figure.
 
Would something like these be of any use on the spare carrier?

And just which 'spare' carrier would that be: one in refit, one in operational work-up, one on ... (oh bugger, thank God for the JEF and Charles De Gaulle)?
 
Last edited:

JCC

LE
And just which 'spare' carrier would that be: one in refit, one in operational work-up, one on ... (oh bugger, thank God for the JEF and Charles De Gaulle)?
I'm not sure there's the money or the inclination to support the navy I suspect you would like.

For me, personally, both are spare and are more likely to get us out of our depth by sheer dint of having them; but that's opinion.
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
That means that they can get to the fight quicker and respond quicker.
Indeed. But it they are fighting alone (i.e. no Arty, no heavy mortars and no Ajax or MBT) they may struggle and die.
The concept was described in "White Flag" by Michael Ashcroft and Isabell Hardman (?) but it presumed Europe and many other simplifications. Friving relatively quickly from A to B is the easy bit - it's delivering combat power when you get there that counts
 
Indeed. But it they are fighting alone (i.e. no Arty, no heavy mortars and no Ajax or MBT) they may struggle and die.
The concept was described in "White Flag" by Michael Ashcroft and Isabell Hardman (?) but it presumed Europe and many other simplifications. Friving relatively quickly from A to B is the easy bit - it's delivering combat power when you get there that counts

quite which is where Strike fails

excellent strategy badly implemented
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
excellent strategy badly implemented
Not sure it is an excellent strategy.
Generally before one gets into a war it pays to have a bloody good look at aim, enemy etc. Which process can be fatally truncated if politicians believe send dsome Boxers, medals and parades by next weekend. (cf. Iraq#2)

Which is not to say that Boxer is a bad idea. Simply that it's just a (much needed) Saxon / 4 tonner replacement. Building strategy on basis of equipment procurement is arse about face, and will end in tears and body bags.

And of course, there remains my default question of "Ajax - WTF?"
 
Not sure it is an excellent strategy.
Generally before one gets into a war it pays to have a bloody good look at aim, enemy etc. Which process can be fatally truncated if politicians believe send dsome Boxers, medals and parades by next weekend. (cf. Iraq#2)

Which is not to say that Boxer is a bad idea. Simply that it's just a (much needed) Saxon / 4 tonner replacement. Building strategy on basis of equipment procurement is arse about face, and will end in tears and body bags.

And of course, there remains my default question of "Ajax - WTF?"
There’s always the press and media vote, when service personnel come home in boxes, Ajax by all accounts is very good, put a turret on all of them, buy 300 more bin warrior job done, or bin Ajax and warrior buy 500 more Boxer? or we could reduce the light infantry, increase the standing of the RA for heavy fires and have the logs to support it.
 

Chimp

ADC
Well one area cuts will be made in is the ID card - no longer needed when the Army becomes so small everyone will recognise each other.
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
There’s always the press and media vote, when service personnel come home in boxes, Ajax by all accounts is very good, put a turret on all of them, buy 300 more bin warrior job done, or bin Ajax and warrior buy 500 more Boxer? or we could reduce the light infantry, increase the standing of the RA for heavy fires and have the logs to support it.

What is it that Ajax is good at? Who has said so? Shiny, fast and technically cool gun for sure. Question is whether it is a useful reconnaissance platform, which we won't know until it's been on proper instrumented exercise or to war.

I doubt that Boxer can replace Warrior - size, protection and XC mobility for a start (tracks beat wheels, end of) and it would be even bigger with a turret.

40mm CTA on WR is folly - and an expensive one. Any stabilized sub 30 mm cannon would do - and there's an argument for just a chain gun. IFVs have no business getting into AFV on AFV combat (outside of an encounter battle - and even then they should be protected by MBT).

More RA firepower - well yes, but remember that it's less useful in operations other than full on war. Smart / autonomous MLRS sub munitions are vital. Logistics of RA are significnant, which means that when you send a shiny strike brigade off to war on it's wheels (presumably with Ajax on transporters) it's going to be there some time without arty. Military history is not kind to scenarios like that.

Which is why it will need AH. But of course AH also comes with a huge logistic burden.

Which is why strike is a flawed concept. Or rather, logistic light strike (which is the cheap version with all the shiny toys but no depth) is bollocks. And we've been here before, when we were looking at the French FAR (Force d'Action Rapide - or, as the French Army called it Faire Avec Rien).
 
What is it that Ajax is good at? Who has said so? Shiny, fast and technically cool gun for sure. Question is whether it is a useful reconnaissance platform, which we won't know until it's been on proper instrumented exercise or to war.

I doubt that Boxer can replace Warrior - size, protection and XC mobility for a start (tracks beat wheels, end of) and it would be even bigger with a turret.

40mm CTA on WR is folly - and an expensive one. Any stabilized sub 30 mm cannon would do - and there's an argument for just a chain gun. IFVs have no business getting into AFV on AFV combat (outside of an encounter battle - and even then they should be protected by MBT).

More RA firepower - well yes, but remember that it's less useful in operations other than full on war. Smart / autonomous MLRS sub munitions are vital. Logistics of RA are significnant, which means that when you send a shiny strike brigade off to war on it's wheels (presumably with Ajax on transporters) it's going to be there some time without arty. Military history is not kind to scenarios like that.

Which is why it will need AH. But of course AH also comes with a huge logistic burden.

Which is why strike is a flawed concept. Or rather, logistic light strike (which is the cheap version with all the shiny toys but no depth) is bollocks. And we've been here before, when we were looking at the French FAR (Force d'Action Rapide - or, as the French Army called it Faire Avec Rien).
Ajax doesn’t get opened up like a zip when engage with 12.7mm rounds, it’s has impressive sensors and when deployed will have active protection on top of the standard laser warning sensors.

TBH we are dancing around the question in that, will the army ever be deployed on a serious level after the follies of telic and herrick.
 
TBH we are dancing around the question in that, will the army ever be deployed on a serious level after the follies of telic and herrick.
No.

Until it does.

Without the requisite equipment, because it will “never deploy on a serious level after the follies of TELIC and HERRICK.”

If a country wants to be a member of an expensive club it need to be able to pay dues. It’s not cheap to be rich.
 
Last edited:
Top