Armed Forces too weak to defeat the Taliban.

#3
A badly titled but interesting article, hits the nail on the head really but anyone who served on the earlier Herrick tours has known this all along.
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#5
In the early Herricks we didn't have the manpower or equipment to hold the ground in theater or the political will and public support at home to do what we needed to achieve "victory" against the Taliban. This is hardly anything new, it's been said on this site for the last 4 or 5 years.
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
We wern't supposed to defeat the Taliban were we?
"In and out in three years without firing a shot"

He applies similer tactics to Celtic's European Campaigns
 
#7
[QUOTE Armed Forces too weak to defeat the Taliban [/QUOTE]

100% Agreed. That's why we along with all the other allied nations will return home defeated.

Mikhail Gorbachev told us this 10 years ago, and their can be no dispute whatsoever now that he was right.

Face facts .... We have lost this particular War.

This is a prime example of how a low tech force can beat a Multi national ultra modern super power hi tech force.

This is the only valid lesson that is to be learnt out of this 10 year campaign.

Will we put this down to experience ?? ... I very much doubt it.
 

Andy_S

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
No.

The Taliban can't defeat the coaltion. What is can do, is outlast it.

Simple equation (eaving aside all rights and wrongs): If you are (1) a hardcore Taliban chap; and (2) a hardcore UK or US soldier:
Who will be prepared to hold out longer?
Who will be prepared to sustain the heavier casualties?

The answer is clear.

Or is it? There is this. The US Army has remained in Korea since 1953, gradually handing over defensive functions to the ROK Army. Today, Korea is the greatest national success story of recent history. If - MASSIVE IF - we have the guts and the vision to see this thing through, we may, just may, see an econonic miracle in Afghanistan.

And for all you cynics who say, "It can never happen" I say this:
Compared to Afghanistan, South Korea was the ultimate basket case in political, economic and social terms. If the Koreans could do it - why could the Afghans not do it?

There is far too much cynicism and defeatism in the UK (and probably the US) today.

We need to man up and stand up for what we believe. If that is free market economics, democratic politics and liberal society, let's fight for it.

Is this not worth fighting for?
 
#9
No.

The Taliban can't defeat the coaltion. What is can do, is outlast it.

Simple equation (eaving aside all rights and wrongs): If you are (1) a hardcore Taliban chap; and (2) a hardcore UK or US soldier:
Who will be prepared to hold out longer?
Who will be prepared to sustain the heavier casualties?

The answer is clear.

Or is it? There is this. The US Army has remained in Korea since 1953, gradually handing over defensive functions to the ROK Army. Today, Korea is the greatest national success story of recent history. If - MASSIVE IF - we have the guts and the vision to see this thing through, we may, just may, see an econonic miracle in Afghanistan.

And for all you cynics who say, "It can never happen" I say this:
Compared to Afghanistan, South Korea was the ultimate basket case in political, economic and social terms. If the Koreans could do it - why could the Afghans not do it?

There is far too much cynicism and defeatism in the UK (and probably the US) today.

We need to man up and stand up for what we believe. If that is free market economics, democratic politics and liberal society, let's fight for it.

Is this not worth fighting for?
Because the RoK was/is a secular country with a clearly defined and maintained Border with it's enemy?
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#10
No.

The Taliban can't defeat the coaltion. What is can do, is outlast it.

Simple equation (eaving aside all rights and wrongs): If you are (1) a hardcore Taliban chap; and (2) a hardcore UK or US soldier:
Who will be prepared to hold out longer?
Who will be prepared to sustain the heavier casualties?

The answer is clear.

Or is it? There is this. The US Army has remained in Korea since 1953, gradually handing over defensive functions to the ROK Army. Today, Korea is the greatest national success story of recent history. If - MASSIVE IF - we have the guts and the vision to see this thing through, we may, just may, see an econonic miracle in Afghanistan.

And for all you cynics who say, "It can never happen" I say this:
Compared to Afghanistan, South Korea was the ultimate basket case in political, economic and social terms. If the Koreans could do it - why could the Afghans not do it?

There is far too much cynicism and defeatism in the UK (and probably the US) today.

We need to man up and stand up for what we believe. If that is free market economics, democratic politics and liberal society, let's fight for it.

Is this not worth fighting for?
Afghanistan is a backwards nation, they have little interest in becoming a forward thinking, modern "western" nation. They are happy in their mud huts tending to their crops and livestock and we should leave them to it.
 

Andy_S

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
Werewolf

Secular? Tell that to the 20,000 Christians who were beheaed in the Han River in the late 19th century.

Clearly defined border?

Tell that to the British soldiers who found themselves facing annihilation as the army of the world's fifth most populous nation stormed three miles behind their positions on 5th November, 1950 at the battle of Pakchon. (From the Chinese perspecive: A battle of annihilation.)

For centuries those borders were in dispute, and China (a far more formidable enemy than Pakistan, I think you will agree) took a strong interst in the affairs of the peninsula.

Also, for the 1950s, 60s, there was a guerilla struggle underway in South Korea, with the guerillas ranks supplmenmted by North Korean special forces. That struggle was mastered: the last partisan surrendered in 1973.
 
#12
[QUOTE Armed Forces too weak to defeat the Taliban
100% Agreed. That's why we along with all the other allied nations will return home defeated.

Mikhail Gorbachev told us this 10 years ago, and their can be no dispute whatsoever now that he was right.

Face facts .... We have lost this particular War.

This is a prime example of how a low tech force can beat a Multi national ultra modern super power hi tech force.

This is the only valid lesson that is to be learnt out of this 10 year campaign.

Will we put this down to experience ?? ... I very much doubt it.[/QUOTE]

When we failed to clearly select and maintain the aim of the campaign, we could only ever expect defeat.

If you don't know what winning is, defeat is all that remains.
 
#13
Werewolf

Secular? Tell that to the 20,000 Christians who were beheaed in the Han River in the late 19th century.

Clearly defined border?

Tell that to the British soldiers who found themselves facing annihilation as the army of the world's fifth most populous nation stormed three miles behind their positions on 5th November, 1950 at the battle of Pakchon. (From the Chinese perspecive: A battle of annihilation.)

For centuries those borders were in dispute, and China (a far more formidable enemy than Pakistan, I think you will agree) took a strong interst in the affairs of the peninsula.

Also, for the 1950s, 60s, there was a guerilla struggle underway in South Korea, with the guerillas ranks supplmenmted by North Korean special forces. That struggle was mastered: the last partisan surrendered in 1973.
Which is why I posed it as a question rather than a statement.

I would still venture to suggest, however, that by the time of the Korean War, South Korea was a secular and more advanced society than Afghanistan today. After the Ceasefire, while there was as you point terrorist attacks on the South backed by NK Special Forces, at least the majority of threats came from a single direction.

IMHO, one cannot use the outcome of the Korean War to predict what will happen in Afghanistan. There are just too many differences between the nations.
 
#16
[
Face facts .... We have lost this particular War.
I don't think we have lost this war but we haven't won it either.

The West needs to scrap the Geneva convention and fight the stoneage inhabitants with no holds barred. Non persistent nerve agent is called for.
 
#17
I don't think we have lost this war but we haven't won it either.

The West needs to scrap the Geneva convention and fight the stoneage inhabitants with no holds barred. Non persistent nerve agent is called for.
A radical view. But if you start in Afghastlystan, you have to continue all the way across Pukeistan. A decision not to be taken lightly and on a par with Hitlers Final Solution.
 
#19
As stated earlier the soviets tried and failed and warned us......we should have listened to them!!! You will never change the mindset of theses people;we are in there now but what did we think we were doing when we went in there? it is not our concern what they do over there ( it is now i know........) if the septics hadn`t pissed OBL off 9/11 would not have happened and Pandoras box would never have been opened...imho we will never have the manpower to outlast an indigenous peoples like the Afghans do you think they have any concept of health and safety,human rights,political correctness.....do not underestimate them they are not as ignorant as is made out!!!
don`t get me wrong i am not supporting them in any way a lot of their ideals are medieval but that is their choice!we do not have the right to impose our will,religion,politics on anyone (the crusades amongst other little squabbles taught us that!!) why do we never learn from history???
 
#20
A radical view. But if you start in Afghastlystan, you have to continue all the way across Pukeistan. A decision not to be taken lightly and on a par with Hitlers Final Solution.
I don't advocate a Final Solution. I suggest that if we have to go to war that we do so in such a way that no one would want to declare war against us. How we win a war is immaterial, we should do so in a manner that means minimum causalities for us and maximum causalities for the enemy.
 

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