Armed Forces Chiefs dodge redundancies

#2
Disappointed rather than surprised. But the good bit is that the MoD us on the case.
 
#3
Loved the comment from one poster that leadership has been replaced by management. His whole comment on
the article says it all for me.
 
#4
Jobs for the boys - no surprises there, really. Before long there'll be more chiefs than injuns.
 
#5
I find this very surprising, I thought with the changes to CEA/entertainment allowance they would all be wanting out to pile into the highly paid jobs they could just walk into.
 
#6
Interesting - I suspect the problem is that these things take time to filter through the system. In the RN for instance, the first round of redundancies targeted junior ranks because SDSR had left a surplus of them in the system with no jobs to do. So far we've not seen the disestablishment of the top level organisation at which you'd expect to see 1* and above targeted.

I've heard that the RAF will massively reduce 2*'s soon - but its taking time to put the new structural arrangements in place to work out how many you need, ahead of setting your manning requirement at that level. I suspect we'll see reductions over the next year or two, as the wider Force 2020 arrangements and structures are implemented. The problem is the medias desire to sacrifically kill off senior officers at all costs.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
As remarked elsewhere, I imagine it is still 'up or out' for star ranks (correct me please if that is not so these days?) so by merely decreasing promotions the numbers can presumably be reduced without 'redundancies'. Over the last few years the RN at least has already reduced the star ratings of various jobs ( for instance RM, Submarines, FAA, and medics and dentists) and combined jobs (e.g.2SL and CinC Home which once upon a time was spread over at least four four stars), a process which will no doubt continue, watched with interest by those who see their own promotion opportunities disappearing. Similarly, for instance, as the RN has closed shore establishments the 1* and Captains' jobs associated with them have disappeared. To say nothing of the Flag representation in our overseas stations which are now history. On the other hand we have new processes (such as 'diversity') visited on the Armed Forces and presumably these soak up senior representation without, perhaps, contributing to killing the Queen's enemies.
 
#8
Never understimate our esteemed leaders' ability to continue to create 1* and above jobs as the cuts start to bite! As seaweed intimated above, various diversity, human resources, accommodation and real estate studies all need the power of at least a 1* at the tiller! In my humble opinion (from a position relatively close to where it was happening in a 4* HQ), some of the recent "studies" headed up by senior Army officers could easily have had their small teams led by a Colonel or even a Lt Col.
 
#9
You should never trim organisations from the bottom up.. always from the top down

If you do, all the rats run upwards, biting all that get in their way on the way up....

...just my opinion mind!
 

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#10
The other day I was told that the Army has 180 Brigadiers (OF6) and 600 Full Colonels (OF5) which I found quite surprising. Fortunately the MoD handily provides a tool that displays manpower by rank:

manning.jpg

OK, its a little out of date (July 10), but only a handful of Brigadiers and 30(?) Colonels have been made redundant. My understanding is that the latter were immediately replaced by promotions so a net loss of zero!

For a rapidly reducing Army, this seems like an awful lot to me!
 
#11
But this doesn't reflect the several reviews that are underway to look at every (and I mean every) Capt RN/Col/Gp Capt and above post in the British Armed Forces.
 
#12
Jul 10 is pre sdsr so likely to be lower now. Remember, we are still shaping what the future top level structure of the forces will be. Already the rn has put out plans for merging and consolidating its structure which see reductions in stars.
We know cuts are coming, but personally i'd rather wait a little bit to get the structure right and then chop rather than rush for rhe sake of pr form.

Doubtless had we paid off ooodles of 1*'s and above then the telegraph would be whingeing about the cost of redundancy pay offs incurred.
 

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#13
Another interesting observation is that with a guaranteed 10 x 3*s in each service, your chances of making it are much better in the Navy!
 
#14
Come Apr 14, there will be 2 x 3* in the RN, plus however many we 'win' in the Joint arena. It might be 10 is the stars align (and we kill all the Pongos), but I doubt it.

Oh, and in that table, numbers are rounded to the nearest 10. There's a disclaimer on the bottom of their tables.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
There have been some fairly bone attempts in the media and on ARRSE to imagine some sort of desired proportionality of star rank to bods, tanks, ships etc. as if all stars were in the direct operational CoC. The RN in particular has been running leaner and leaner manning in its ships for some decades now because advances in technology make that possible, particularly in the engine room. What matters is what jobs need to be done, and with what level of experience, not just to lead and train in the present, but to plan for the future in terms of men, kit and technology, to liaise with those we fondly believe to be our allies, and to staff the 'training teams' and so forth by which we hope to sell training to other peoples' forces so that they will prefer our view of things to (say) China's.
 
#17
A quick glance at the MoD structure comapring now and several years ago does seem to reveal a fairly widespread downranking of senior positions.

I agree 'redundancy' is the weasel word being used, typical journalist bullshit to confuse the public (and underinformed posters on arrse everready to leap on the outrage bus).

When senior officer positions go or reduce in rank there is no redundancy involved, the incumbents either get promoted to one of the fewer jobs at a higher rank or selected for a second tour at the same rank, or they retire. Executive redundancy packages are for bankers, industrialists and the like not senior officers.
 
#18
I refuse to believe this, it's not like we have a Lt Col's stagging on the cookhouse on ops is it.... ;)
How else are officers supposed to help win the conflict in Afghanistan if it isnt to enforce dress standards?
 
#19
No surprise really.

Whenever any public body scales down, the last jobs to go are those at the top. UKBA has been downsizing massively, but the new senior management posts are multiplying exponentially. Some managers already have no staff to manage at all, and never will. Meanwhile my team of 10 has been reduced to 3 (who attend for duties) and even my so-called team leader works when he likes (not the ghastly shifts I do) and spends much of his time going to meetings to which he is not invited and, and have no relevance to my team's work.

Kill all the bosses, and lets go to work.
 

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