ARMD INFANTRY WITH FR?????

#1
I heard a whisper from an ex-upstanding member of my regiment that ARMD INF may
get attached to FR regiments. Anybody else heard about this ?. Could be interesting .
 
#4
Yes FR is formation recce , heard A.I. may get involved , perhaps to strike on what the recce screen
sees. I was just wondering if any other FR or INF lads had heard anything .
 
#5
I also heard something about Engineer Recce Teams being established as an integral part of FR Regiments.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
#6
What's the problem? In the 1970s the Recce Regt at Tidworth had an Assault Troop and into BAOR they had Surveillance Troops who were Assault Troops in all but name.

This at a time when the Septics had pulled out of a disaster in Southeast Asia "With Honor" (sic) and promptly done away with National Service: all their conscripts were straight out the door and the only people who'd sign up were either those who really really wanted to be in the Army (when anyone with any ability joined the USMC) and people who thought turning burgers was above them.

It was well-known throughout NATO at the time that the US Army was not the lean machine it had once been. No offence intended to our colonial cousins.)

Every other army in NATO was conscript.

So when we deployed to BAOR and discovered that there was an annual NATO Reconnaissance competition, our Surveillance Troops entered confident of getting somewhere.

After two such exercises they had achieved nothing special and were quite upset about it, only finishing about halfway up the score sheet each time.

Then I spent 1980 studying Linguist German at Mülheim an der Ruhr where I learned that to the rest of the world, Recce is a synonym for Special Forces.

I give you:

Fernaufklärungstruppe = German SAS.

Hands up if you watched GI Jane. Her first posting after qualifying (the excuse for a battle at the end)? To a Close Reconnaissance Team.

Hands up if you have ever read History of The Reconnaissance Corps 1940 - 1946. The introduction states quite boldly that Recce troops are practically SF.

Armour Volume 2, The Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment? Lists skills more akin to the SAS than the Paras.

Explains why our "Assault Troops" were only average, when other armies were fielding their SF.

So, armoured infantry with Recce? Le plus ça change ...

Edited a typo
 
#7
Yes we still have ''assault'' troops.These have become more specialized with FAC's sniper's and MSTAR.
FR regiments also have two Royal engineer recce blokes per squadron. My original post was about
armd infantry being attached to a formation recce regiment . I was wondering how these would be
deployed etc etc .
 
#10
What would be the reason that INF would be deployed alongside FR ? No disrespect to the INF
but there is nothing that they could provide that we cannot do ourselves . Except as i have posted
earlier , assault / act on anything seen in the recce screen .
Even with the best of crew's its hard to ''snurgle'' about in a wagon that weighs nearly
40 tonnes . Maybe its a manpower thing seeing as FR regiments are getting ''hammered'' for
telic tours .If this is the case ,it has nothing to do with FR doctrane. As my unit has recently found
tours of Iraq ensure major skill fade on FR tasks . Yanto comment ?????
 
#11
P3 - FR will get its own Tac Gp plus Engr Recce. No AI element.

Everyone will be mounted in CVR(T) variants. ES still slightly untidy across the piece.

The post-FAS FR groups are starting to form up as we speak, but I don't believe we'll really see formed FR groupings doing things together until later on this year. Maybe.
 
#12
Specialist CBRN recce teams are also planned to be attached to FR groups (providing that TA FAS finally gets announced this month!). It seems like a sensible move to me to have specialists attached and on the ground in real time - let's just see how much training these FR groups get to do together, you know, as a team!! I would be interested to see the final orbats.
 
#13
Sorry - forgot to add (now that I am fully aware and deeply appreciative) of the critical role and importance of the entire CSS piece, I should have added:

'...ES and Med still slightly untidy across the piece...'

Apologies for any confusion caused. :)
 
#14
We were all geared up with a complete TACP and engineer recce. It was a steep learning curve
for us all even if we were getting back to our FR role . Once again telic is opon us and the many
orbat / role changes Telic brings . With out sounding rude , i am well aware of how FR fits into the
FAS. I have been told by a good source that that the deployment of ARMD INF with FR is being
looked at . I was just wondering if anyone else has heard the same whisper ?
 
#15
It's been quite something in recent times for the BG recce element to be reinforced with Armr and AI support - traditionally known as 'R Sqn' or 'R Coy', and as it's all the Bde Comd's train set, there's no reason why he couldn't attach a company of AI to FR for a specific task.

But there are no plans whatsoever to formally attach companies of AI to FR Regts for ever and a day - we struggle to run with what we've got, IMHO.

Stay safe out there, P3!
 
#16
Cheers Darth for the answer , i must admit i couldnt see how AI and FR could really work
together except if FR is out of the recce role . Darth ''In hot''
 
#17
paveway_3 said:
Cheers Darth for the answer , i must admit i couldnt see how AI and FR could really work
together except if FR is out of the recce role . Darth ''In hot''

I think it will depend on the nature of the Job. To be honest we seem to get on ok in places like Iraq. If it was old East V West in germany type thing, i would find it hard to imagine how we could work closly, in as far as how we like a good "snurgle" enall. Wont Be much of that with a Warrior Cmdr 20 feet off your arrse wondering where the hell your going, and afraid he might get lost as you have done your 4th dog leg in a attempt to get just 1000m to have eyes on.! Perhaps his natural instinct to fix Bayonets and kill!!!, will be a little too much for him to bare, as we by pass and move on! And as he trundels, right over the Crest line for the 15th time, we might have to shoot him ourselves! jokeing aside though, i cant see it being a problam, in todays world of counter insurg and all.
 
#18
paveway_3 said:
Cheers Darth for the answer , i must admit i couldnt see how AI and FR could really work
together except if FR is out of the recce role . Darth ''In hot''

I think it will depend on the nature of the Job. To be honest we seem to get on ok in places like Iraq. If it was old East V West in germany type thing, i would find it hard to imagine how we could work closly, in as far as how we like a good "snurgle" enall. Wont Be much of that with a Warrior Cmdr 20 feet off your arrse wondering where the hell your going, and afraid he might get lost as you have done your 4th dog leg in a attempt to get just 1000m to have eyes on.! Perhaps his natural instinct to fix Bayonets and kill!!!, will be a little too much for him to bare, as we by pass and move on! And as he trundels, right over the Crest line for the 15th time, we might have to shoot him ourselves! jokeing aside though, i cant see it being a problam, in todays world of counter insurg and all.
 
#20
i have heard about the engrs getting worked into the FAS equation but no AI. also have heard about the excess inf being transfered across the fill the empty spaces in the C&S sqn to help with the inf type work. as for the ET system it still needs working out as we need specialist kit and have no ET to back it up. very frustating as we need the kit to do our job!
 
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