Argentina Selects FA-50 Fighter

Some previous reports on the Argentine effort to acquire new planes said that their defence priority involved their northern frontier region, with a particular focus on air support for potential counter-insurgency operations. They do have Pucaras which are intended for this role, but they also want something faster and more sophisticated as well to try to cover the big empty spaces of their frontier districts. So far as I understand their biggest concern is to have the potential to deal with another break down in internal stability rather than operations against neighbouring states.

They've been trying to buy new planes since the Falklands War, without luck due to lack of money. I will believe that they are getting new planes from South Korea when I see them actually arrive.

Do the Koreans like corned beef?
 

Mike Barton

War Hero
Some previous reports on the Argentine effort to acquire new planes said that their defence priority involved their northern frontier region, with a particular focus on air support for potential counter-insurgency operations. They do have Pucaras which are intended for this role, but they also want something faster and more sophisticated as well to try to cover the big empty spaces of their frontier districts. So far as I understand their biggest concern is to have the potential to deal with another break down in internal stability rather than operations against neighbouring states.

They've been trying to buy new planes since the Falklands War, without luck due to lack of money. I will believe that they are getting new planes from South Korea when I see them actually arrive.
Interesting, you really wonder why mid-level states like Argentina, heck most of Latin America, Africa and Asia for that matter really need fighter jets.

Who are they war gaming against (let's assume the Falklands are out of the equation)?

One sees the same thing in SE Asia as countries like Indonesia buy submarines, seriously? The only people you are likely to fight with submarines or jet fighters have much bigger, faster, more advanced and better armed toys in their box than you will ever have, and a hell of a lot more of them, so why bother?

Are these vanity projects or are there serious situations envisaged in which they would ever be used?
 
I was going to ask, why does it have/need to be a twin-seat aircraft design . . . particularly as the pilot in your photo, seems quite capable of flying it on his own!
So whichever despot is running this particular banana republic at any point in time can have a means of dropping opponents into the River Plate.
 
South Koreans apparently love spam so there may be a market.
allegedly you could hang meteor or a similar long-range missile off it which might be the argies plan the Air force can claim it could totally overwhelm the RAF if it had the missiles but doesn't actually plan on buying them hence shutting the remust retake the malvinas crowd up.
 
I assume these jets will be used for AD, Air Policing and light strike.
You forgot "Ground attack in support of coup attempts".

Well it is South America after all.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
South Koreans apparently love spam so there may be a market.
allegedly you could hang meteor or a similar long-range missile off it which might be the argies plan the Air force can claim it could totally overwhelm the RAF if it had the missiles but doesn't actually plan on buying them hence shutting the remust retake the malvinas crowd up.
And how would they ever get an export license for meteor??? We blocked numerous attempts of them buying aircraft simply because we made electronic subcomponents and bang seats from MB.
 
Can it carry Exocet?
 
Are these vanity projects or are there serious situations envisaged in which they would ever be used?
A little bit of both really. However, quite a few of such nations have genuine security concerns.

Regards,
MM
 
Don't laugh

That was at Warton when I was visiting two lifetimes ago. Note the high security wooden lash up barricade.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
That was at Warton when I was visiting two lifetimes ago. Not the high security wooden lash up barricade.
Also reminds me i need to start a thread on Project Mosquito at some point either today or tomorrow
 
Interesting, you really wonder why mid-level states like Argentina, heck most of Latin America, Africa and Asia for that matter really need fighter jets.

Who are they war gaming against (let's assume the Falklands are out of the equation)?
You may as well ask why does Europe need weapons? If anything, South America is notable for how little they appear to spend on defence.

We'll stick to South America for this question, but the region has a history of wars between states and with various insurgents. For example, there is currently a low level insurgency war going on in Paraguay, which is just north of Argentina.

One sees the same thing in SE Asia as countries like Indonesia buy submarines, seriously? The only people you are likely to fight with submarines or jet fighters have much bigger, faster, more advanced and better armed toys in their box than you will ever have, and a hell of a lot more of them, so why bother?

Are these vanity projects or are there serious situations envisaged in which they would ever be used?
Why would you buy submarines? Because it means that anyone who wants to attack you is going to have to make a serious effort at it, raising the cost and so helping to deter them.

Compare this with Switzerland which has long followed a policy of armed neutrality. Their neighbours were larger than they were and had bigger armies, but Switzerland was a tough enough nut to crack that none of them wanted to try since Napoleon, despite having a go at everyone else in sight. The effort required was just not worth the potential gain.
 

Mike Barton

War Hero
You may as well ask why does Europe need weapons? If anything, South America is notable for how little they appear to spend on defence.

We'll stick to South America for this question, but the region has a history of wars between states and with various insurgents. For example, there is currently a low level insurgency war going on in Paraguay, which is just north of Argentina.


Why would you buy submarines? Because it means that anyone who wants to attack you is going to have to make a serious effort at it, raising the cost and so helping to deter them.

Compare this with Switzerland which has long followed a policy of armed neutrality. Their neighbours were larger than they were and had bigger armies, but Switzerland was a tough enough nut to crack that none of them wanted to try since Napoleon, despite having a go at everyone else in sight. The effort required was just not worth the potential gain.
Thank you for your informative reply. I still question these sort of purchases, and I very much take aboard your point about Europe. Your point about Switzerland is valid but realistically is anyone threatening Switzerland with invasion these days? If you wanted to control Switzerland today a handful of highly motivated tech geeks could do a lot more damage in half an hour than 10 divisions of mountain troops could do in five years.

I wasn't aware of the insurgency in Paraguay but what use would jet fighters be in such a scenario? The UK fought a four decade-long insurgency and never felt the need to crack out jet fighters at any stage. Most of the major powers of the world haven't fought an old-fashioned "I declare war!" conflict against a similarly armed opponent since Korea. With the exception of the complete outlier of the Falklands is there any real likelihood of any Latin American nation using jet fighters against a comparably armed opponent? Who exactly is planning on invading Indonesia that it needs three diesel submarines to deter them? Nobody.

I just can't help feeling that about 90% of the serious hardware (as opposed to infantry weapons and boots etc) sold to these nations will never be used and no one ever really believes that there is the least prospect that they will be used.
 
(...) I wasn't aware of the insurgency in Paraguay but what use would jet fighters be in such a scenario? The UK fought a four decade-long insurgency and never felt the need to crack out jet fighters at any stage.
The UK seems to have found jet fighters to be fairly useful in fighting insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq not that long ago.

Most of the major powers of the world haven't fought an old-fashioned "I declare war!" conflict against a similarly armed opponent since Korea. With the exception of the complete outlier of the Falklands is there any real likelihood of any Latin American nation using jet fighters against a comparably armed opponent?
Peru and Ecuador fought a brief war in the 1990s over territory in the Amazon. This was a follow-up to previous wars and border skirmishes over the same issue over the preceding decades. Jet fighters were used by both sides in the war.

Who exactly is planning on invading Indonesia that it needs three diesel submarines to deter them? Nobody.
After their wars of independence Indonesia has fought a war with Malaysia, with the latter being supported by the UK, Australia, and New Zealand.

From a strategic position Indonesia is a very large archipelago and controlling their internal waters is essential to their self defence. If they had the money they would likely buy even more submarines. They have three in active service, but their naval plan presently includes having eight in total.

Who needs to be deterred? Anyone with a large navy who operates in the area, such as the Chinese and the Americans. Keep in mind that for an archipelagic country control of the seas between their islands is as important to their territorial integrity and security as control over the land is and there is no practical difference between a foreign power making "sea grabs" versus making "land grabs". Different legalistic arguments may be deployed in each case, but every aggressor always claims that law, if not justice, is on their side.

I just can't help feeling that about 90% of the serious hardware (as opposed to infantry weapons and boots etc) sold to these nations will never be used and no one ever really believes that there is the least prospect that they will be used.
Well if the kit is never used then it could be argued that their defence plan was successful in deterring war.
 

Mike Barton

War Hero
Fair enough, thank you for your thoughtful reply, I'm still not convinced anyone is remotely interested in invading Indonesia but something needs to keep the defense procurement guys in Jakarta busy I suppose, those Maitre du Temps watches don't buy themselves you know.

I will now google the Peru Ecuador war to educate myself a bit better.

All the best.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top