Are you a Gentleman or an Esquire?

#1
My many interests outside life in a green suit include genealogy & heraldry. I recently came across the Debretts definition of Gentlemen and Esquires which includes officers in HM Forces.

Commissioned officers of the rank of Lieutenant (Royal Navy), Captain (Army) and Flight Lieutenant (Royal Air Force) and above are deemed to be Esquires. Officers below those ranks are deemed Gentlemen.

Pip Pip. I am sure you all feeling better for that knowledge.

3G Esq
 
L

Lady_Landy

Guest
#2
Originally a shield-bearer or armour-bearer; an attendant on a knight,
Esquire is a title of dignity below a knight (It belongs by right of birth to the eldest sons of knights and their eldest sons in perpetual succession) and above a gentleman Esquire is a fitting title for JP's while in commission, those in special office in the Royal household, counselors at Law, Bachelors of Divinity, Law or Physic etc etc.
I fail to see how Captains etc would naturally assume this title as a matter of course. It may be thought with the backgrounds of some 'oiks' that even the lesser title of 'Gentleman' would be inappropriate.
8O :wink:
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
#3
This does not of course apply to officers of the RLC, where captains and below are known as 'officer under arrest for sex related offences' but more senior ones are referred to as 'officer under investigation for sex related offences'.

In both cases, however, they will in due course be referred to as 'Mister'
 
#5
You can also add senior officers to the list under the Title "Bonking" as in Bosnia Bob although at Lt Col level its either Brothels or "self build establishments" :twisted:
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
#7
Although of course according to the Sun anyone over the rank of LCpl is 'Army Top Brass'
 
#11
ViroBono said:
chimera said:
In both cases, however, they will in due course be referred to as 'Mister'
....shortly thereafter being referred to as 'the accused'.
Leading into 'bitch' once incarcerated. Particularly when in the communal shower with freinds 'Bubba' and 'Razors'. Soap on a rope?......you'll wish you had!
 
#12
Civilian_ln_Green* said:
What is 'The Sun' you refer to?
It is a tabloid newspaper. Usually bought by those of questionable literacy but a taste for all things female.
I don't buy it but i'm assured it has it's virtues. Invariably on the third page if rumours are correct. :wink:

Hope i have been of humble help and not too 'common' for you to comprehend.

Regards,

Civ
 
#13
But since the rank of Member in the Order of the British Empire is now open to all ranks, how does

"Companions, Commanders, Officers and Members of Orders of Knighthood and Chivalry"

apply to those (including 'other ranks') who are below Captain & equivalent??

PS - Naval Officers are, of course, NOT gentlemen, hence we trail our swords!!
 
#14
U_P,
Not poking fun, but I've heard that the reason you're not allowed to wear your swords properly is because Naval Officers mutinied some time ago?
Can you confirm this, or tell me the real reason?
 
#15
I heard that it was the crew who mutinied and the Officers promised a fair trial and then killed them all. The Queen wasn't pleased that her officers hadn't kept their word and so decreed that they where no longer to be considered gentlemen.
 
#17
Dunno about this gentleman versus esquire bit - but if you asked about esquire versus playboy I'd be much better qualified to comment :p
 
#19
Reference Naval Officers dragging their swords ( except when wearing a greatcoat, health and safety reasons :wink: ) far famed wolf wrote:

I heard that it was the crew who mutinied and the Officers promised a fair trial and then killed them all. The Queen wasn't pleased that her officers hadn't kept their word and so decreed that they where no longer to be considered gentlemen.
That's the story (ish) most RN Senior Rates and some Officers will tell you. (Queen Victoria's doing). I can't vouch for the veracity of this version. The only version!

Regardless, many Warrant Officers and Senior Rates/NCOs will refer to "Ladies and Gentlemen....... (Royal) Naval Officers" in calling a gathering/class to order. Bit unfair on the RN Officers with lumpy jumpers.

Mister or Esquire?

Court Circulars rate Midshipman, Sub Lieutenant, Second/First Lieutenant (RM/Army) and Pilot/Flying Officer Crab Air and as ‘Mr’ or; Service/Regiment Esquire when they (for example) announce their marriage to Mademoiselle Shazza Chardonnay-Britney. For Lieutenants RN/Captains (RM/Army)/ Flight Lieutenant Crab Air and above, their service rank is also their social rank.

Some newspapers give Ratings and Other Ranks their service ranks in obituary headings, which winds up some purists but is an appropriate mark of respect, even if the deceased went outside 50 years ago. Recently,

Petty Officer Thomas Gould VC Royal Navy
Corporal Bill Sparks DSM Royal Marines

Quite right too! Carry on!
 
#20
I heard that the RN sword-dragging practice had been rescinded as the time period (100 years?) had expired. True or otherwise?

As to the "gentleman vs esquire" debate, isn't a gentleman someone of "independent" means? Lets face it, who would do this for a hobby! I am sure someone will correct me..... :twisted:

Soon to be "Mr"....
 
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