Are we, were we, all soldiers first.

#1
I was speaking to my son (RM not RE) who is on R&R from Afghan at the moment and he was talking about how some Spr units allowed the troops to help with Sanger duties, when some didn't. (Not at Bastion)

My question is:

Is there a reason why the lads shouldn't help out with those types of duties, especially in the situation like there is in South Helmand Province. Especially when we are, were, told that we are Soldiers, first, RE second, Tradesman third.

I could've added my comments to the B1 thread that is currently going on, http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=11694/start=45.html
however i didn't want to take that one off at a tangent.
 
#2
I was, Class one clerk, sect 2IC, G2 busy body, Phot.........Stag ON! It was fun too.
 
#3
would never let a tankie near a cbt engr task they may mistake the sandbags for oversized cornish pasties :thumleft: :thumright: :thumleft: :thumright:
 
#4
I was a combat engineer through and through so didnt bother me if I was tasked with infantry style work like I was on a couple of occasions in NI. But as you said Holdfast, soldier first, engineer second, tradesman third. :thumleft:
 
#5
A_Knocker_Till_The_End said:
would never let a tankie near a cbt engr task they may mistake the sandbags for oversized cornish pasties :thumleft: :thumright: :thumleft: :thumright:
Very funny Knocker, quite correct :thumright:

However this time I'm taking a real situation. I'll PM you with the details and let you decide.
 
#6
Holdfast,

When I was in Kandahar, there was an opportunity to go out to the Tarnak Farms ranges with the Canadian PRT patrols company, and fire LAW (66mm), M203s, GPMG's and HMG's. We were not allowed however, as it was too dangerous to leave the wire......... :frustrated:


how embarrassing was that.
 
#8
hurrahfortheRE said:
Holdfast said:
Especially when we are, were, told that we are Soldiers, first, RE second, Tradesman third.
Still depends on your trade they tell you its in that order but not to go over old ground again but, as a fitter they refuse to let me do my B1 Cbt Engineer.
Thats the reason I didn't want to put this into the other thread. I'll PM you with some other details to see if I can make my point better. I still think with the "overstretch" that is out there that any help the Spr's can give the fighting units should be given.
 
#9
Holdfast said:
I was speaking to my son (RM not RE) who is on R&R from Afghan at the moment and he was talking about how some Spr units allowed the troops to help with Sanger duties, when some didn't. (Not at Bastion)

My question is:

Is there a reason why the lads shouldn't help out with those types of duties, especially in the situation like there is in South Helmand Province. Especially when we are, were, told that we are Soldiers, first, RE second, Tradesman third.
.
I suppose it depends on the operation and circumstances at the time.

The REs tend to be in quite short supply. It may be that they were kept back from stagging on in Sangars in order to be available for short notice deployments to build safehouses, etc. RE knowledge and manpower can be seen as a theatre asset as much as a.. fks.. Wimmik.. etc.

Purt em on stag and you've ultimately got to wait to find someone to cover that job before bugging the sapper out.
 
#10
Fatbadge said:
Holdfast said:
I was speaking to my son (RM not RE) who is on R&R from Afghan at the moment and he was talking about how some Spr units allowed the troops to help with Sanger duties, when some didn't. (Not at Bastion)

My question is:

Is there a reason why the lads shouldn't help out with those types of duties, especially in the situation like there is in South Helmand Province. Especially when we are, were, told that we are Soldiers, first, RE second, Tradesman third.
.
I suppose it depends on the operation and circumstances at the time.

The REs tend to be in quite short supply. It may be that they were kept back from stagging on in Sangars in order to be available for short notice deployments to build safehouses, etc. RE knowledge and manpower can be seen as a theatre asset as much as a.. fks.. Wimmik.. etc.

Purt em on stag and you've ultimately got to wait to find someone to cover that job before bugging the sapper out.
I agree to that in part, but in this situation they were out at one of the Coy locations and static. And the point was why would some troops be allowed to stag on and when they are relieved the next troops don't.
 
#11
Well that just comes down to management at the end of the day. When we were there in the summer we were brought into the reg's stag routine and rightly so. Whenever engineer tasks came up we were immediately relieved by the reg guys who just took on more stags and vice versa. Whenever they went on patrols that didn't involve a lot of Cmbt Engr support we then took over. We all worked together wherever we were at especially given our relatively small numbers when broken down into the companies with them. They helped us out with man power on many a sandbagging task.
All about the teamwork IMHO.
 
#12
if engineers are stagging on then something has gone wrong - far more important things to do REgardless of theatre.

Sqn Bar, picnic tables, sun shelters, swimming pools etc etc.
 
#13
I think the recent Apache riding incident,in The 'Stan',shows that Sappers can still soldier.As other posters have suggested,letting the guys soldier,when their other skills are in such high demand,and their numbers are so low,is a decision for commanders.However,when it comes to it,Sappers can 'soldier' very well.
 
#15
Gazareth said:
Well that just comes down to management at the end of the day. When we were there in the summer we were brought into the reg's stag routine and rightly so. Whenever engineer tasks came up we were immediately relieved by the reg guys who just took on more stags and vice versa. Whenever they went on patrols that didn't involve a lot of Cmbt Engr support we then took over. We all worked together wherever we were at especially given our relatively small numbers when broken down into the companies with them. They helped us out with man power on many a sandbagging task.
All about the teamwork IMHO.
Spot on answer, 9 sqn/ 59 would be expected to muck in and should be within every mans capability to do so regardless of trade/spec qual ect. In a war zone security and protection is everyones responsibility.
 
#16
roughytoughy said:
Gazareth said:
Well that just comes down to management at the end of the day. When we were there in the summer we were brought into the reg's stag routine and rightly so. Whenever engineer tasks came up we were immediately relieved by the reg guys who just took on more stags and vice versa. Whenever they went on patrols that didn't involve a lot of Cmbt Engr support we then took over. We all worked together wherever we were at especially given our relatively small numbers when broken down into the companies with them. They helped us out with man power on many a sandbagging task.
All about the teamwork IMHO.
Spot on answer, 9 sqn/ 59 would be expected to muck in and should be within every mans capability to do so regardless of trade/spec qual ect. In a war zone security and protection is everyones responsibility.
Whenever I've gone anywhere it's always been patrolling/stagging on/ soldiering and then if needbe ME tasks. Gaz's post reflects the way things have been for quite a while as regards 9 Sqn. If I remember correctly we were penciled in as reserve infantry on 5 AB orbat.

That said I have been out with another unit (mentioned elsewhere on these forums) and to be honest their skills and drills stank. I think in that respect it came down to the attitude of their headshed.

As far as my feelings go the old saying soldier first, engineer second and then trade should be something that is stuck to. Even though it may be overlooked these days.
 
#19
Pling said:
hogstable said:
But if you are on stag how can you be building a squadron bar?

Now that is the question !!!
Hit the nail right on the head - its a question of priority.
From what I was told the Ghurka's had already done the bar. So there was no need for these Sprs to sit back whilst the Bootnecks stagged on all the time as well as patrolling etc. :shakefist:
 
#20
Cant comment on the specifics of this question but most tours I have done we work all hours but gave the impression of sitting on arses.

When units out on patrol they do not get to see what other units in the same location are doing it all gets passed on as rumour and heresay

At the end of the day it is not down to the units themselves who does what it is down to the camp commander and force commander who is available for what and when they are used

I have been dragged onto stag as a full screw to replace a tom who had to go on a job and other times I have worked for over 48 hours no stopping but because it was out of sight of the rest they assume that my section was just skiving. (Not everyone gets the high profile jobs)
 

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