Are we part of the problem?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by PartTimePongo, Aug 3, 2005.

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  1. Gerald Howarth , MP for Aldershot etc , has launched an attack on Jack o' Straw's comments yesterday , that the continuing prescence of British troops was part of the problem in restoring stability to Iraq.

    What Jack actually said was http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15810832&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=jack-straw-yesterday--troops-are-part-of-iraq-problem--name_page.html

    I tihnk we've actually been saying that for some time, but it comes as a shock to see a Minister of the Crown say that too. It's as if someone realises that they can't play happy-happy-joy-joy forever.

    However , Mr. Howarth launched into an attack here

    http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=news.story.page&obj_id=124192

    Only a naif could possibly misinterpret deliberately what Jack Straw was actually saying in my opinion.

    However, I open it to the floor, is Howarth right, or simply political grandstanding as he eyes up the Tory leadership.

    2 juicy stories around a shadow ministers comment in 2 days?
     
  2. Liabour are slowly starting to shift into post-Bliar postures. There was a little snippet in the Sunday Times(I think?) about the Iraq War being Bliar's war in spite of the doubts of other ministers and advisors.

    By Christmas they will all be shaking their heads and saying "what a disaster, I told you so" despite what they have said previously.
     
  3. As much as I hate all ****ing MPs. Gerald Howarth is the MP for Aldershot. He is always speaking up for the Armed Forces - Good on him!
     
  4. Howarth is right!

    Labour are doing a smoke and mirrors on us. They have consistently told us that their is no link (and htat is debatable) between the iraq/afghanistan campaigns and the terror attoricites, but now they are testing the water to change that view quietly and silently without the public noticing.

    Unfortunately for them (and fortunately for us), their are individuals like Howarth and Ian Hislop who will not let them away with it.
     
  5. Okaaaaaaay......Can someone please tell me how it is appropriate for Jack to say we are part of the problem?

    I've read the Mirror link (ach, spit) and am still no wiser as to how these comments could be anything other than a knife in the back to the blokes currently picking sand out of their sandwiches. Perhaps Mr Pongo could explain?

    I'm serious, I just don't see it.
     
  6. This is my take:

    The Tory centre-right under "Geezer" Davis want to outflank the bed-wetting, public school, silver-spoons-in-their-gobs, Neu Arbeit-wannabes of the "Notting Hill" set. This lot, under David Cameron, think that being a big, statist party like New Labour but promising the odd tax cut is the Way Forward. They subscribe to the Portillo hand-wringing that characterises the Tories' post-Thatcherite hangover.

    OTOH, looking at the constituency map, the Davis camp see the opportunity to create clear Blue Water by attacking multi-culturalism...not between them and Labour, but between themselves and the Notting Hill set. Many Tory backwoodsmen and constituency activists will be cracking one off over Howarth's remarks.

    This doesn't detract from the reality that:

    1. Howarth and Davis also conveniently probably believe what they say.

    2. Out there in Media-land, some very unlikely people are beginning to speculate if the late 20th Century multi-cultural social model is working as well as the Unionised, high-tax economy of the 1970's.

    My personal view is that the subject is far too sensitive and complex to be entrusted to Politicians and journalists to sort out.

    V!
     
  7. If poor Jack is that cut up about it why doesn't he quit like his predecessor (Robin Cook) did? Seriously, how much effort does a resignation letter take? The cnut should be given a high school politics textbook turned to the pages that cover ministerial and collective responsibility.

    Still, it's no big surprise really. He sold out any principles he had left when he let Pinochet go after spending half his life trying calling for his arrest.
     
  8. Sorry Crabby, I'm still none the wiser. Jack is an integral part of the government that sent our boys to liberate Iraq. After splendidly taking the place and then doing our utmost to hold it together the bloke says we're 'part of the problem'. Well, if we are, surely that's his fault? If we're not, and the consensus seems to be that we indeed are not, what is the idiot doing blaming himself?

    At least the Tory bloke is talking sense. It's funny how the Tories get more support when they have the bottle to actually act like Tories instead of a pale blue version of Labour.
     
  9. tehy dont teach that any more mate! :wink:
     
  10. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    To say "we are part of the problem" is a gross simplification, and frankly an insult to all the Troops out there now. They are doing a very good job - far better than most of the MNF - and they are actually achieving things, and actually. daily, making peoples' lives better. We have done amazing work via QIPs and CRPs, etc., to actually imporove things.

    What the blokes and Women out there are now doing is holding the ring, until the Iraqis can sort things out for themselves. It's not a situation involving international terrorism, or anything like that - frankly never has been - but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be there. What the Iraqis - supported by the MNF - are facing is a viscious fight by the dispossesed minority power-holders, the Sunnis, who can't get their tiny heads around the fact that they are no longer in charge.

    I'm not sure about the American view - that we are fighting terrorism there, rather than in the USA, but they may have something of a point. I can't really comment. What I will say is that to say that terrorist scum in the UK, some of whom were born and raised here, can take the liberation of Iraq as an excuse to kill innocent people is a disgrace. For once, possibly the first time, I am in agreement with the Government.

    Someone - possibly their 'community leaders' - should convince these scrotes that it's NOT the British Army killing Iraqis, it's OTHER IRAQIS. If we left, it would be even worse - but even then, nothing near as bad as when S Hussein was running things.

    Sorry to rant, but terrorist apologists and the "Yes, but..." brigade make my blood boil. they speak from ignorance, and in many cases a deep dislike (Jealousy, usually) of the USA. Bloody grow up.
     
  11. ^ Thanks for that OS, I am in complete agreement with you.

    When you point out to the average fellow-traveller/ apologist that it's Jihadist Muslims killing other Muslims in Iraq it's just blank stares. They just don't wan't to get it...complete denial.

    V!
     
  12. The troops are not "part of the problem". They are doing their best under difficult and life-threatening circumstances.

    The politicians who embarked on an illegal war under a smokescreen of lies with no international support and who completely screwed up the aftermath in every way possible are "the problem".

    Straw is "the problem" as is Bliar. The chief problem is Dubya and his bizarre departure from a strategy based on intervention in Afghanistan that at least had a clear purpose and international support.

    Now Afghanistan will go down the khazi as well.