Are we going to see riots this summer ?

They didn't involve hanging and the like. It was heading in this direction:

Replicating the Norwegian model would probably not work in the UK unless there was a massive culture change and massive investment in more than policing and prison services.
 
Replicating the Norwegian model would probably not work in the UK unless there was a massive culture change and massive investment in more than policing and prison services.
That was the general idea, much more education and there'd also have been less time for drugs convictions, dependent on the crime itself. Whether the budget was there to fund it is another thing. Brexit campaigning and post vote fallout knocked it all on the head anyhoo.
 
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Absolutely no need, the entire readership of Arrse know exactly what I mean.

As do you.
"Because" then? OK.
 
They didn't involve hanging and the like. It was heading in this direction:

Why on earth are you comparing a country with a total population less than London with the UK?

I'd also suggest that comparing Norway's reoffending rate of tagged offenders is something that needs looking at as generally in Europe if you're sentenced under 2 years you go tag.

Germany is a better comparison as it is similarly modelled on Norway's oh so perfect prison system of rehabilitation yet suffers a remarkably similar reoffending rate to the UK.



Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
 

Mrsheeny

War Hero
They didn't involve hanging and the like. It was heading in this direction:

Those daft left wing schemes always claim to lower crime, what they probably do is the following :

1 - Scum bag robs house, owner reports it.
2 - Police come and arrest scum bag and goes to court.
3 - Judge sentaces scum bag to 3 years fishing, arran sweater knitting and tofu eating.
4 - Scum bag released, robs house, owner doesn't bother reporting because there's no point.

Hey presto, crime figures are down.
 

NSP

LE
Replicating the Norwegian model would probably not work in the UK unless there was a massive culture change and massive investment in more than policing and prison services.
Not to mention a significant thinning of the population density, and a more even distribution and elevation of living standards and quality of life.
 

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
Not to mention a significant thinning of the population density, and a more even distribution and elevation of living standards and quality of life.
Well, every cloud...
Happy to help with thinning the population density BTW
 
That was the general idea, much more education and there'd also have been less time fro drugs convictions, dependent on the crime itself. Whether the budget was there to fund it is another thing. Brexit campaigning and post vote fallout knocked it all on the head anyhoo.
There are other things,
It doesnt matter where you live or your background, in Norway you have decent schools (Kids at state school aged 10 had chrome books over the covid period. The parents tend to believe the teachers over their children if they are being little cnuts. They have free university education.

They have social workers who are ruthless.

Its 10 quid a pint in a bar, only one shop in a town sells alcohol (over 4.7%) usually between 10am and 6pm during the week, closes at 3 on a Saturday and doesnt open on sundays and most bank holidays, a bottle of smirnoff is around 40 quid a litre. For shops that sell alcohol at 4.7% they also stop serving at certain time, I think its 8pm and they dont sell it on Sundays either. You have to be over 20 to buy hard liquor (18 for anything under 22%) Basically most violent drunks cant afford to be violent drunks.

Being a rebel is generally viewed as being a bit of a chod. Where as being a naughty boy in the UK has a bit a street cred with peers, most people in Norway just think you are a bellend.

A lot of people can be trusted to do the right thing (Hand in lost wallets, help a neighbour, they have something called dugnad where they all get together and do something for the community, from painting fences to taking tickets at a football match)

They force immigrants/refugees to integrate.

That rambled on a bit, but its to point out the UK cant just import Norway's prison system and expect it to work without a lot more ground work (Good luck getting the public to accept 10 quid a pint in the pubs)

Having said that they still have criminals, there are numerous biker charters, a bloke called David Toska is a career criminal, (his last little stunt killed a copper) and of course Anders Breivik whose sentence ends in 2033 (and there is a debate on how/why extend it) for the murder of 77 people.
 
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Why on earth are you comparing a country with a total population less than London with the UK?

I'd also suggest that comparing Norway's reoffending rate of tagged offenders is something that needs looking at as generally in Europe if you're sentenced under 2 years you go tag.

Germany is a better comparison as it is similarly modelled on Norway's oh so perfect prison system of rehabilitation yet suffers a remarkably similar reoffending rate to the UK.



Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
I'm not comparing us. HTH
 
Those daft left wing schemes always claim to lower crime, what they probably do is the following :

1 - Scum bag robs house, owner reports it.
2 - Police come and arrest scum bag and goes to court.
3 - Judge sentaces scum bag to 3 years fishing, arran sweater knitting and tofu eating.
4 - Scum bag released, robs house, owner doesn't bother reporting because there's no point.

Hey presto, crime figures are down.
Aye, that daft left wing Michael Gove.
 
There are other things,
It doesnt matter where you live or your background, in Norway you have decent schools (Kids at state school aged 10 had chrome books over the covid period. The parents tend to believe the teachers over their children if they are being little cnuts. They have free university education.

They have social workers who are ruthless.

Its 10 quid a pint in a bar, only one shop in a town sells alcohol (over 4.7%) usually between 10am and 6pm during the week, closes at 3 on a Saturday and doesnt open on sundays and most bank holidays, a bottle of smirnoff is around 40 quid a litre. For shops that sell alcohol at 4.7% they also stop serving at certain time, I think its 8pm and they dont sell it on Sundays either. You have to be over 20 to buy hard liquor (18 for anything under 22%) Basically most violent drunks cant afford to be violent drunks.

Being a rebel is generally viewed as being a bit of chod. Where as being a naughty boy in the UK has a bit a street cred with peers, most people in Norway just think you are a bellend.

A lot of people can be trusted to do the right thing (Hand in lost wallets, help a neighbour, they have something called dugnad where they all get together and do something for the community, from painting fences to taking tickets at a football match)

They force immigrants/refugees to integrate.

Thats rambled on a bit, but its to point out the UK cant just import Norways prison system and expect it to work without a lot more ground work (Good luck getting the public to accept 10 quid a pint in the pubs)

Having said that they still have criminals, there are numerous biker charters, a bloke called David Toska is a career criminal, (his last little stunt killed a copper) and of course Anders Breivik whose sentence ends in 2033 (and there is a debate on how/why extend it) for the murder of 77 people.
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the relative values.

Now read what I said. Going in that direction doesn't meant a clone, it means trying to cut reoffending rates with some of the same processes. He also looked at US stuff as well.

You reckon Gove would go that way because he's soft hearted?
 
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the relative values.

Now read what I said. Going in that direction doesn't meant a clone, it means trying to cut reoffending rates with some of the same processes. He also looked at US stuff as well.

You reckon Gove would go that way because he's soft hearted?
No point in having some of the same processes if you dont have them all.

I reckon he might have tried it because he thought it would be cheaper.
 

NSP

LE
(Good luck getting the public to accept 10 quid a pint in the pubs)
Not to mention the Noggin levels of tax, NI and other social "contributions."
 
I'm not comparing us. HTH
Well why post it? Michael Goves reforms were based on a visit to a German prison for starters.

There is actually nothing wrong with rehabilitation and we do attempt that. But at the same time a price has to be paid for the victims sake.

A high proportion of prisoners will continue to reoffend because they're actually just horrible humans that want stuff for free without actually doing any hard graft.

I went live on the wing May '19 and I've already seen the return of many prisoners that breach their licence. FFS yesterday I saw one that didn't last 10 hrs before he was back. Why? Because the hostel CRC arranged for him was a 'bit shit and not where he wanted'. Where he wanted would be breach his licence no doubt.

As I said nothing but excuses exit the majority of cons mouths.
 
Not to mention the Noggin levels of tax, NI and other social "contributions."

I have spoken to numerous yanks who think the Norwegian healthcare system is fantastic and that they should have it in the states, they have been listening to Bernie Sanders a bit to much and think that rich people will finance it all, they arent so keen when I point out the Norwegians pay things like a 25% sales taxes.

I do find it amusing when I see Sturgeon and the rest of the SNP harping on about Scotland being like the Nordic countries once the nasty English stop holding them back, try introducing 10 quid a pint in Jockland and she will be swinging from the nearest lamp post.
 
I have spoken to numerous yanks who think the Norwegian healthcare system is fantastic and that they should have it in the states, they have been listening to Bernie Sanders a bit to much and think that rich people will finance it all, they arent so keen when I point out the Norwegians pay things like a 25% sales taxes.

I do find it amusing when I see Sturgeon and the rest of the SNP harping on about Scotland being like the Nordic countries once the nasty English stop holding them back, try introducing 10 quid a pint in Jockland and she will be swinging from the nearest lamp post.
One can but hope
 
Well why post it? Michael Goves reforms were based on a visit to a German prison for starters.

There is actually nothing wrong with rehabilitation and we do attempt that. But at the same time a price has to be paid for the victims sake.

A high proportion of prisoners will continue to reoffend because they're actually just horrible humans that want stuff for free without actually doing any hard graft.

I went live on the wing May '19 and I've already seen the return of many prisoners that breach their licence. FFS yesterday I saw one that didn't last 10 hrs before he was back. Why? Because the hostel CRC arranged for him was a 'bit shit and not where he wanted'. Where he wanted would be breach his licence no doubt.

As I said nothing but excuses exit the majority of cons mouths.
Without doubt it's a revolving door system & the fault is always someone else's.
I once had one tell me that it's not his fault he's inside, it's the fault of the police who caught him. All with a straight face.
Rehabilitation, in many cases, is just a word. Normally used by lefty types who see good in everyone.
Our record on arrest after release was 1m 45s.
Prison works because it prevents the little sods reoffending, on the outside at least.
 
Without doubt it's a revolving door system & the fault is always someone else's.
I once had one tell me that it's not his fault he's inside, it's the fault of the police who caught him. All with a straight face.
Rehabilitation, in many cases, is just a word. Normally used by lefty types who see good in everyone.
Our record on arrest after release was 1m 45s.
Prison works because it prevents the little sods reoffending, on the outside at least.
**** me, did he rob the gift shop on his way out? o_O
 

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