Are we going to see riots this summer ?

Not necessarily MOE police, but BETTER policing. Not taking hte knee. Not dancing with da yoof or attending Gay Pride - you know, getting pally with the populace. The difference being being pals and being friendly. When the populace are getting raucous, it is harder to police them if they feel that you are their pal and that you will cut them some slack. This is the case of giving a finger, losing an arm.
From what I remember, the Police chiefs stated that the crime levels were dropping, so the Home Office minister/s of the day said "save some money". This is a part of the reasoning behind the reduction in police numbers.
Something that Prison Officers are taught in training.
"Be friendly but never be their friend".
 
I've had plod pointing guns at me, threatening to shoot me for taking photos, I knew they didn't have the bottle to do it

If you don't stand your ground, they'll be more intimidating the next time

What would you do, take the knee before beating a hasty retreat?
Not sure of your point. How about you go to Israel and try it?

Once again, would you have stood your ground in the same situation?

I'd have got myself assigned to the tooled up gang pdq BTW.
 
Absolutely. I would add that their authority has been eroded to the extent that the big boys should have been there from the outset.

You mentioned Policing By Consent. We are approaching the point of non-consent by the denizens of White City, Brixton et al.
But...if we don't have enough of the big boys because of cuts......

The non-consent have been there for some time in parts of London, I reckon those doing the job are generally better equipped than I to make the decisions at the time.
 
Not sure of your point. How about you go to Israel and try it?

Once again, would you have stood your ground in the same situation?

I'd have got myself assigned to the tooled up gang pdq BTW.
You've not answered my question what would you do, take a knee then beat a hasty retreat?
 
But...if we don't have enough of the big boys because of cuts......

The non-consent have been there for some time in parts of London, I reckon those doing the job are generally better equipped than I to make the decisions at the time.
You've not answered my question what would you do, take a knee then beat a hasty retreat?
 
Who said they were peaceful? Guys without gear again? Would you have stood your ground? Still not answered have you?
You've not answered my question what would you do, take a knee then beat a hasty retreat?
 
They have retreated, in fairly orderly fashion, whilst under attack. Which is what they'd do in similar circumstances at any time, until the big boys who are tooled up get there. Common sense no?
You've not answered my question what would you do, take a knee then beat a hasty retreat?
 
Not trying to police by consent?

I know the reasoning behind the cuts, I know the reasons given for cutting courts and other parts of the CJS. It's been a failure and it isn't because plod attend Gay Pride events or don't alienate the public.
You've not answered my question what would you do, take a knee then beat a hasty retreat?

At pride would you expect officers to suck a cock off, before they took the knee, then beat a hasty retreat?
 
Who said they were peaceful? Guys without gear again? Would you have stood your ground? Still not answered have you?
Cleverly had no idea of that woman's motives or intentions in doing what she apparently did. Another interpretation could have very different connotations.

This is what instant news does to actual, real information and history. It started in the Vietnam war and is now being seen with realtime coverage in policing incidents. @bigeye could perhaps give some 'realtime' views on it.

I tend to believe that without examination, politicians and slanted 'news' broadcasters can transmit information without a great deal of nuance and credible background to it - maybe that's what we need, but very few of those agencies were quick to examine the background of the George Floyd incident. The truth is everything.
 
You've not answered my question what would you do, take a knee then beat a hasty retreat?

At pride would you expect officers to suck a cock off, before they took the knee, then beat a hasty retreat?
How many knees do you think he has? ;)

As for your assertion of sucking off before they take the knee, I think taking the knee first would facilitate that much easier. Much easier on the lower back. . . . . . . I guess.
 
Question for those still serving. Does the Met still have the "Commissioners Reserve" 60 level 1 officers on instant standby to attend incidents immediately followed by Area Reserve on 30 minute standby CR fully equipped with shields and equipment AR allowed to return to base to equip.
 
She was for sure, whether you agree or not is irrelevant, the late 70s and 80s saw a growing politicisation of the Police and it was all pro Conservative, naturally. Blair may have carried it further or not, he certainly didn't start it.
OK I will bow to your far greater police knowledge and experience. I thank you for your service.
 

BuggerAll

LE
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Not necessarily MOE police, but BETTER policing. Not taking hte knee. Not dancing with da yoof or attending Gay Pride - you know, getting pally with the populace. The difference being being pals and being friendly. When the populace are getting raucous, it is harder to police them if they feel that you are their pal and that you will cut them some slack. This is the case of giving a finger, losing an arm.
From what I remember, the Police chiefs stated that the crime levels were dropping, so the Home Office minister/s of the day said "save some money". This is a part of the reasoning behind the reduction in police numbers.
I think you have completely miSsed the point of policing by consent. The police are not an army of occupation. Police officers should be friendly to law abiding members of the public. That means all of tge public not just nice middle class people.

In the case of those groups that have been antagonist to the police that means reaching out and being a bit pro-active. Changing the perception of the punters. The modern equivalent of Dixon of Dock Green.

That doesn’t mean being soft of crims.

As for the police making a tactical withdrawal that seems entirely sensible. There is a fine line line where too heavy handed Policing provokes the very disorder you’re trying to avoid at what would otherwise be a (relatively) peaceful event and where an event becomes disorderly.

Think about an event like the Army Navy Rugby. A very large crowd of largely drunk fighting age males. Generally well behaved (leaving aside the odd public urination). The police are generally friendly.

I’ve seen a few minor confrontations between the police and punters. Silly behaviour by drunk troops and overreacting by plod. Usually stopped by older and wiser heads on both sides.

Just imagine what would happen if the police decided to ‘retake’ the streets of Twickenham.
 
When I started working with homeless types, I was discussing helping them out in small ways with my Trainer. He was adamant. I am not their friend, and I should never ever ever attempt to becomes so. Everything is fine in the day to day side of things, but as soon as it comes to the enforcement side of then, then you become the biggest bastard ever, and they'll be out to get you. Keep it professional, and things will go better.
Watch the vid of the guy with the taser in atlanta ? he was nice as nice could be and all the training in the world on touchy feely gets you up to the point, where the suspect determines that he is not going to come quietly at all...That crossover between chat and violence is sharp and sudden, the police like a soldier is trained to react in an instant and civvies simply don't understand and think the plod has just started to lay into someone for the laughs.

The modern alternative appears to be simply let a suspect run away, which is safer, but is hardly good for the wider community who have to harbour the idiot until such time as they're are finally caught. We've seen that most of the summer and as I've suggested before, this short term approach is a false economy in my book.
 
When I started working with homeless types, I was discussing helping them out in small ways with my Trainer. He was adamant. I am not their friend, and I should never ever ever attempt to becomes so. Everything is fine in the day to day side of things, but as soon as it comes to the enforcement side of then, then you become the biggest bastard ever, and they'll be out to get you. Keep it professional, and things will go better.
I have been volunteering with the homeless, off and on, for about 10 years now.
I have got increasingly disillusioned.
For every genuine hardluck story, there are many more ars.holes
 
You've not answered my question what would you do, take a knee then beat a hasty retreat?

At pride would you expect officers to suck a cock off, before they took the knee, then beat a hasty retreat?
Bloody hell mate, you either need to check out your equipment, or your drinking
 
Watch the vid of the guy with the taser in atlanta ? he was nice as nice could be and all the training in the world on touchy feely gets you up to the point, where the suspect determines that he is not going to come quietly at all...That crossover between chat and violence is sharp and sudden, the police like a soldier is trained to react in an instant and civvies simply don't understand and think the plod has just started to lay into someone for the laughs.

The modern alternative appears to be simply let a suspect run away, which is safer, but is hardly good for the wider community who have to harbour the idiot until such time as they're are finally caught. We've seen that most of the summer and as I've suggested before, this short term approach is a false economy in my book.
Exactly, the officer behaved like a proper professional, until the arse.ole became all arseholie – then it went pear shaped, and now the law abiding law enforcing lad is in custody (and, some might think, the a‘hole got his just deserts)
 
I think you have completely miSsed the point of policing by consent. The police are not an army of occupation. Police officers should be friendly to law abiding members of the public. That means all of tge public not just nice middle class people.

In the case of those groups that have been antagonist to the police that means reaching out and being a bit pro-active. Changing the perception of the punters. The modern equivalent of Dixon of Dock Green.

That doesn’t mean being soft of crims.

As for the police making a tactical withdrawal that seems entirely sensible. There is a fine line line where too heavy handed Policing provokes the very disorder you’re trying to avoid at what would otherwise be a (relatively) peaceful event and where an event becomes disorderly.

Think about an event like the Army Navy Rugby. A very large crowd of largely drunk fighting age males. Generally well behaved (leaving aside the odd public urination). The police are generally friendly.

I’ve seen a few minor confrontations between the police and punters. Silly behaviour by drunk troops and overreacting by plod. Usually stopped by older and wiser heads on both sides.

Just imagine what would happen if the police decided to ‘retake’ the streets of Twickenham.
I went to Army v Navy at Twickenham (our Fijians are better than yours) on a beautiful sunny day about half a dozen years ago.
The 11 a.m out of Waterloo contained a number who were already arseholed (I seem fond of that word this morning).
As the day went on, the levels of drinking became Olympian.
I am a long way from being temperance, but this was an eye-opener.
 
I have been volunteering with the homeless, off and on, for about 10 years now.
I have got increasingly disillusioned.
For every genuine hardluck story, there are many more ars.holes
We've got a mixed bag, some you feel sorry for, some get bad advice. The number of out right ********* I've encountered seems to be relatively low. But they do have a very different, almost alien, world view and way of thinking. Most have contributing factors drugs being the most common.
Locally at least, I think they're all IC1 as well. There was a BLM protest in the city centre when all this started. I do wonder how the felt about people yelling about their "white privilege".
 

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