Are we going to see riots this summer ?

this is a deliberate undermining if the justice system, and this is a part of a wider and sinister agenda being played out by the hard left.
I’ve been in the job just shy of 20 years. It’s been like this long before I joined by all accounts. There is undoubtedly a requirement for a fit and proper legal aid system. However the current shambles which sees legal firms taking the piss and raping the shit out of the public purse needs to be seriously looked at.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Legal Aid needs a through overhaul. IMO, lawyers should be paid on a case by case basis, lose the case and the scrote goes down, no pay until scrote is released and has to pay his bill, win the case and scrote stays free, get paid. It should also be paid at a rate that reflects modern society, ie an hourly rate which the scrote should be able to pay to his lawyer once he's been set free (if ever) around 12 quid an hour, all bills to be thoroughly examined before payment for any kind of fraudlike shennanigans.
 

NSP

LE
Just to put this out for the forums information.

The amount of attrition on police officers for public complaints against them is something to behold. An apparently simple complaint of an officer using excessive force " in someones opinion " during an arrest can have that officer on restricted duties for a year or more whilst the investigation goes through, maybe even longer if it goes to court or the IOPC. Current record is an 11 year investigation for a death in custody where all police staff were repeatably cleared of wrong doing.

It is very easy for anyone to put an complaint in, media can be edited to a great degree and the amount of malicious complaints going ahead defies belief. The results are that you lose officers for a substantial amount of time even if the complaint proves to be crap, or they just resign through the stress of it...their team mates see this and greatly effects their will to get hands on as well.

The talk on the forum for cracking heads etc is fully understandable and the years of pussy footing about as a service due to upper managements game plan have done nothing but embolden the crims and exasperated the general public.But the dice is fully loaded against the front line officers using robust physical action and is very much in the mind of a lot of officers.
This is why they need to up the bodycam use and expedite its review in the face of complaint.

"He beat me up in the van, called me a black bastard."

"We've reviewed the plethora of footage from first contact to you going into the room to chat with your brief. Everyone was formally polite, correct and courteous towards you as far as you facilitated. However, you spitting in the arresting officers face and calling him a "honky c**t" will be brought to the attention of the magistrates when you see them in the morning as an aggravating factor, as will your repeated foul language in a public space despite repeatedly being cautioned in regard to your behaviour under the Public Order Act. Complaint dismissed. Have a nice day."
 

NSP

LE
You’re not taking into account solicitors and barristers for the defence. Paid for, more often than not with legal aid. They’ll kick the can down the road as far as they can do to ensure they wring every penny from the public purse. Not unusual for simple cases to run for up to a couple of years before resolution. In my own experience the relevant office or agency responsible for investigating complaints against police will hold off until any court case is resolved. The first thing your average scrote will do if lifted and any force is used during arrest will be to file a complaint against the officers involved. It’s gotten to the stage where local magistrate and county courts are a joke. I would recommend anyone sceptical of this spends a day at their local court. Any scepticism will soon be removed. The justice system in the U.K. is flawed and in need of serious reform in my humble opinion.
Addendum to my last: "Yes, sir. However, as you will have seen from the footage we gave you my officers behaved with correctness, politeness and restraint. Your client is a foul scumbucket. Scumbuckets, foul or otherwise, see the magistrate in the morning. Have a nice day."
 

NSP

LE
Legal Aid needs a through overhaul. IMO, lawyers should be paid on a case by case basis, lose the case and the scrote goes down, no pay until scrote is released and has to pay his bill, win the case and scrote stays free, get paid. It should also be paid at a rate that reflects modern society, ie an hourly rate which the scrote should be able to pay to his lawyer once he's been set free (if ever) around 12 quid an hour, all bills to be thoroughly examined before payment for any kind of fraudlike shennanigans.
Ha! Yeah! The exquisite counter to no win, no fee. Like it...
 
Addendum to my last: "Yes, sir. However, as you will have seen from the footage we gave you my officers behaved with correctness, politeness and restraint. Your client is a foul scumbucket. Scumbuckets, foul or otherwise, see the magistrate in the morning. Have a nice day."
If only. Unfortunately. Like I said, take a trip to your local county or magistrates court. Take a coffee and sit in the back and watch the circus that passes for our justice system. Don’t forget your blood pressure tablets.
 

NSP

LE
If only. Unfortunately. Like I said, take a trip to your local county or magistrates court. Take a coffee and sit in the back and watch the circus that passes for our justice system. Don’t forget your blood pressure tablets.
How do you know I'm on blood pressure tablets...?
 
If only. Unfortunately. Like I said, take a trip to your local county or magistrates court. Take a coffee and sit in the back and watch the circus that passes for our justice system. Don’t forget your blood pressure tablets.
I work in the justice system. I'd like to be able to disagree with your comments, but I can't.
You're right about what happens in court. The bottom line is money - there's pressure to keep people out of prison. Governments of all persuasions haven't wanted to create more cell capacity. Add to that some judges and JP being somewhat out of touch, and the result isn't good.

It's easy to blame the government but this is an occasion when it's true. That's not a political point - Labour would be no better, though for different reasons.

To put my point more simply, if judges started imposing longer sentences, they'd quickly be told not to, by government. Because of £.

That all said, it is still early doors for Johnson and Patel. I'd like to believe that Patel is going to change things up, but I don't know.
 
I work in the justice system. I'd like to be able to disagree with your comments, but I can't.
You're right about what happens in court. The bottom line is money - there's pressure to keep people out of prison. Governments of all persuasions haven't wanted to create more cell capacity. Add to that some judges and JP being somewhat out of touch, and the result isn't good.

It's easy to blame the government but this is an occasion when it's true. That's not a political point - Labour would be no better, though for different reasons.

To put my point more simply, if judges started imposing longer sentences, they'd quickly be told not to, by government. Because of £.

That all said, it is still early doors for Johnson and Patel. I'd like to believe that Patel is going to change things up, but I don't know.
I’d like to believe she will but I won’t hold my breath. You’re right of course about money. For all the crying about how police aren’t doing their job, I’d say this. How come the court lists are packed and the jails full? I would also try and reassure you that the justice system below a certain level, peelers, court staff, CPS/PPS, HMP are honestly knocking their pans in. For the most part. The political will, thus far hasn’t followed through. Money is being spent. Just not appropriately.
 
I'm at a loss as to why it costs ca. £44k pa to keep someone behind bars. I'm pretty ******* sure I could think up something cheaper... and nastier. Much, much nastier. I'm not talking Treblinka, more Newgate. I (and probably many others of my generation) still think of HMP Slade as what prisons are like... or rather what they should be like: forbidding, cold, unpleasant and a little bit terrifying - a bit like Cameron Barracks, as my ol' feller once said.

I just can't think why he'd have said such a thing... or what it reminds me of.

barracks2.jpg
 
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NSP

LE
So, the total for tonight in my village appears to be a bunch of loud twats forgetting to stick to their table and hugging their mates at neighbouring tables (one of which lives in my building, along with three 70+-yr olds and one grumpy git on BP meds so she'll be getting a warning order on the morrow), a bunch of muppets holding a block party where it all went wrong and they started fighting (now in police custody), some twat ripping the number plates of any car parked on his nearest street (given a good shoeing and apparently in police custody), four obvious RM pissed as twats gobbing off expletives at elevated volume through the village and taking it in turns to punch each other in the face whilst laughing like drains (all in male clothing) - doubtless some grumpy twat will phone the camp and ask for the RSM, just like last time. All hail Boris!
 
Yes, it is in progres in the form of soul-searching, I mean, I am trying to establish how many here are soulless bastards and how many need help and how. (Soulless bastards: about 0. Need help: nearly all. Actual danger to the public in case the shit hits the fan: probably quite a few.) You know, like what sort of childhood trauma makes some guys here hope for an opportunity to shoot civilians of some unfavoured type. Or what set of values they see worth defending. Or why in the armed forces in the first place when differring not much from some religious extremists as far as attitudes are concerned. Please feel free to chip in more constructively.
I give out few, very few, negative ratings, but you've just earned two. Stop posting for a while, and read the site.

Then try to understand what goes on in the Military.

That sort of thing breeds a very black humour.
 
I’d like to believe she will but I won’t hold my breath. You’re right of course about money. For all the crying about how police aren’t doing their job, I’d say this. How come the court lists are packed and the jails full? I would also try and reassure you that the justice system below a certain level, peelers, court staff, CPS/PPS, HMP are honestly knocking their pans in. For the most part. The political will, thus far hasn’t followed through. Money is being spent. Just not appropriately.
I was in the Met from 1987 until 2015. The only time crime fell was when Michael Howard was Home secratary in the mid nineties and he started jailing all the scotes under the theory that prison works. He was right, it did, but he got a lot of political flak for it. Of course it could have been due to a blip in the demographics of the time.
 
I'm at a loss as to why it costs ca. £44k pa to keep someone behind bars. I'm pretty ******* sure I could think up something cheaper... and nastier. Much, much nastier. I'm not talking Treblinka, more Newgate. I (and probably many others of my generation) still think of HMP Slade as what prisons are like... or rather what they should be like: forbidding, cold, unpleasant and a little bit terrifying - a bit like Cameron Barracks, as my ol' feller once said.

I just can't think why he'd have said such a thing... or what it reminds me of.

View attachment 487198
Drill macht frei?
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Legal Aid needs a through overhaul. IMO, lawyers should be paid on a case by case basis, lose the case and the scrote goes down, no pay until scrote is released and has to pay his bill, win the case and scrote stays free, get paid. It should also be paid at a rate that reflects modern society, ie an hourly rate which the scrote should be able to pay to his lawyer once he's been set free (if ever) around 12 quid an hour, all bills to be thoroughly examined before payment for any kind of fraudlike shennanigans.
The problem with that is that it incentivises the leaches to win at any cost. Perhaps lawyers should get a bonus if their client pleads guilty.

There should also be consequences for malicious complaints.
 
Surely the police body cameras would indicate whether a correct, if robust, approach has been made once the criminal has been advised he/she/it has broken the law?
Assuming they are similar to ours you have to turn them on unless the violence is sufficient enough for the sensors to turn themselves on.

Personally I always forget to turn mine on as apparently governors don't like it when you become verbally very loud, uses expletives to carry your point across or go up the bars to assist a prisoner in tactically descending from said bars. It's best mine stays off and I'd imagine many a copper would feel the same, easier to do the extra paperwork.
 

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