Are they really that stupid?

#1
Not trying to yank bash here but the last comment has me seething with anger at the arrogant stupidity of some Americans. How can he say he supports peace and then make his last comment? After September 11 Americans appear to be so stupid as to be still supporting terrorists – against their staunchest allies. But then again most of them think Iraq is part of the war on terror. How can they ever expect to win when they don’t have the first fcuking clue what they are for or against? Give me strength…:evil: :evil: :evil:

From the BBC.

Has Gerry lost support in the US?

In America, Gerry Adams is like Jerry Springer - you either love him or hate him.

He's outspoken, he's controversial, he's been accused of stirring up trouble for many years and his critics say he thrives on conflict... that's Gerry/Jerry.

Not true, say friends; the real Gerry/Jerry is a peacemaker, a man who uses unorthodox methods to try to resolve unorthodox problems.

Jerry Springer is a talk show host; Gerry Adams is a politician. It's unlikely their paths will cross in the US this week, unless Springer decides to do a show about broken relationships.

The love-in between Irish America and the Sinn Fein president has hit the rocks.

The most potent symbol of that was the decision by Senator Edward Kennedy to refuse to meet Adams during the St. Patrick's week celebrations.

Peace process

Many regard Kennedy as the father figure of Irish America and by slamming the door on Adams he sent out a very symbolic message.

"He's been badly advised" said a Sinn Fein spokesman.

Privately, the party believes that the Irish Government twisted Kennedy's arm to cancel the planned meeting.

In many ways, Kennedy's move was more significant than President Bush's refusal to invite Adams to the White House.

Gerry and George have never been great buddies.

With Kennedy it was different. In the past he went out on a political limb for Adams, particularly in the early days of the peace process, when President Clinton was persuaded to allow Sinn Fein to visit the USA.

It's clear the veteran Senator's patience with Republicans has now snapped. More than 10 years into the peace process he expected the IRA to have gone away by now.

The £26 million bank robbery, a money-laundering scam in the Irish Republic and the murder of Robert McCartney - all have been blamed on the IRA in recent months.

That's why St. Patrick's Day is going to be very different in Washington this year. In political terms, there's nothing to celebrate.

Alarm bells

For Gerry Adams, some doors have been closed - and that's grabbed the headlines - but others have remained open.

The former US envoy to Northern Ireland, Richard Haass, invited him to New York on Monday.

At a breakfast meeting, he was greeted by many key players in Irish American relations, including millionaire Bill Flynn, Senator Kennedy's sister Jean Kennedy-Smith and former UN envoy Nancy Soderberg.

The meeting itself went well, but what must have set Sinn Fein alarm bells ringing was when Haass mentioned Adams in the same breath as Yasser Arafat.

The recently deceased Palestinian leader was once hailed as a man of peace but the Americans later came to the conclusion that he was a man of war. Sound familiar?

It's a comparison that Sinn Fein firmly rejects. When I put the Arafat remark to Adams, he brushed it off, pointing out with a smile that he was still very much alive.

We spoke at an Irish theme bar in New Jersey. Adams had just given a speech in the pub, in front of about 150 adoring supporters.

I spoke to a number of them. They all assured me that in spite of Edward Kennedy's rebuff, grass root Irish Americans still loved the Sinn Fein leader.

In the crowd, was one of the tallest men I've ever seen. He could certainly claim the title of Gerry Adams' biggest supporter. We did a quick interview on camera in which he eloquently outlined his support for Sinn Fein, for peace and for democracy.

Half an hour later, as I was leaving the bar, I heard this deep voice calling me back.

"Hey, Mr BBC man... Up the IRA!".
 
#2
Slightly off-topic but I've been to NY only once, 6 years ago, to visit a friend (Brit expat). She'd only been there a few months and took me to her favourite bar: "a really friendly Irish place." I was a little uneasy as I didn't want my money finding its way to the scum that were taking out British soldiers, but she assured me she'd never seen anything pro-IRA in there. True enough it was a friendly place without any overt Republican displays so I decided that it was a good place. That was until later on in the evening when some people came round 'collecting for charity'. My mate chucked in a few dollars (it turns out she always did - she didn't know which 'charity' she was donating to) but I declined to contribute and after dragging her outside suggested that unless she wanted to feel guilty every time someone was maimed or killed by the IRA that she shouldn't visit there again. :evil:
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#3
In the crowd, was one of the tallest men I've ever seen. He could certainly claim the title of Gerry Adams' biggest supporter. We did a quick interview on camera in which he eloquently outlined his support for Sinn Fein, for peace and for democracy.

Half an hour later, as I was leaving the bar, I heard this deep voice calling me back.

"Hey, Mr BBC man... Up the IRA!.
Yes OS, some people are too stupid for words.
But there again he lives in a place where it's unlikely for his wife and children to be held hostage while he delivers a proxy.

A couple of years ago I met a TA offr who was in New York a month or so after the World Trade Centre was hit.
He was in a bar with another colleague when a local bloke asked them if they were British.
They confirmed and he said that they, (Americans,) never realised what terrorism was all about and that while he had contributed to Noraid in the past he'd never do so again.
In his own words, "I can't believe that you Brits have put up with so much sh!t for so long."
 
#4
Listen ....

I've had Septics say the same to me, then go on to tell me how much they admire the Queen and the "thin red line" of the "Royal Army".

I also once met a Septic history professor in Galway (interesting bloke, first job during his Army service was reading through docs retrieved from the Furher bunker, was then a liaison officer in their Moscow embassy for some of the more interesting years of the cold war). His take was that a great many of the most vocal pro IRA supporters would be avid Paisleyites if they lived in NI. Their main point of interest being tommy gun fights with the Government, any Government.

He was a touch more interesting than the USAF security policeman who stood on a table chanting "Long Kesh", apparently he thought it's Irish for "freedom" - I didn't enlighten him (although he is one of the foreigners who now believes that "bateabap intilye" is a traditional gaelic greeting).

In fairness though I have met those whose love for the smell of cordite off Gerry and his mates has been dampened considerably by the 9/11 events and the continuing presence of Brits in Iraq.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#5
I was taken into a 'friendly' Irish Pub in San Fransisco called the 9 Countiies on 12 Sep 01. There was continuous TV coverage of the Twin Towers. All these people were sitting around complaining about 'terrorists'. It did not seem to worry them that they were in a terrorist Pub. Pictures of Adams McGuiness and the other usual suspects, but worse there were the old IRA celebratory posters with pictures of soldiers they had murdered.

I did not kick off, my wife explained to our host that we were 'uncomfortable' and that it was best we left. I wrote to the SF Chronical, but they did not publish - no suprize really.

I have to say most of my friends in the US are anti IRA, if they think about it at all, but probably because they are Scot/Americans in the south.
 
#6
Yes, many are ignorant of the whole Irish situation, especially of the IRA.
They see the IRA as some sort of "Freedom Fighters" for people being held in a situation against their will.

They do not connect them with Terrorism in the same vein as they do Osama .

The attitude is particularly prevalent in Eastern US.
 
#7
Not trying to Yank Bash..
It's difficult to avoid it.

20 years ago I spent 3 weeks on a military spotters tour of the industrial US on a green army schoolbus containing a range of DoD types of all ethinic flavours.

Every time we passed an Irish bar, the redneck would chime up, you'd never dare go in there you brit bastard. The 50 % rednecks on the bus would all have a quiet smirk.

Determined to maintain cordial relations I held my tongue until the last week. When he chimes up again, I wait a few minutes then addressing myself to Bruce, the only other non spam on the bus, I announce:

"Bruce, I've been hear nearly 3 weeks now and have seen 20 or 30 Irish bars, I wonder what happened to all the Red Indian bars??"

The black and hispanic side of the bus errupts into laughter, the WASP side sits silently poker faced.

L**** a Cree, the only Native American on the course sits as usual, quietly on the back row, grinning from ear to ear. Top bloke, subsequently went on to become the first spam to pass selection for years.

The highland clearances and the potato famine might weigh on our conscience, how can they so quietly ignore their own domestic holoucast ??
 
#8
McSorley's bar in NY was a real hotbed of IRA/NORAID support in the mid-eighties. Around closing time young "Irish" Americans dressed in black berets, sunnies, M65 field jacket with black trousers bloused into their para boots would walk the tin around. One night we were in there late and the commander of the NY brigade of the IRA or some such b******s came round.

I was quite restrained and merely suggested he could "fcuk off" if he wanted my money. Curiously enough about five or six regulars came over and thanked me for standing up to the plastic paddy, including a chap who was a political exile from the South who had got across the Dublin government the wrong way in the sixties...Of course I left v.v.v.quick and got a taxi straight away. I may be stupid but I'm not brave as well!! :twisted:
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#9
subbsonic said:
Not trying to Yank Bash..
......

The highland clearances and the potato famine might weigh on our conscience, how can they so quietly ignore their own domestic holoucast ??
OI ! Don't you start bringing logic into their 'argument' !
:lol:
 
#10
had a couple of mates who went to boston a while ago, after much drinking they were skint but had enough money left to buy a bucket and a black marker. a couple of "charity collections for the boys" later and they had enough to pay for their hotel and flights and 10 days more drinking. :lol:
 
#14
Benjaminw1 said:
WEATHERMAN1956 said:
You fellas ought to stay out of Boston.

:?
Some of us have been there in uniform 8O , so :?: :)
And, when provoked, lashed the locals by detailing the prevalence of Irish blood in the British population as a whole.

Met one or two very pro-republican bods who were open about things and were prepared to listen. The problem out there is the usual - Politicians, and playing for votes!. It seems to breed ignorance where there was none before.
 
#15
Ah yes.......Irish-Americans; their dewy-eyed nostalgia for Ireland always increases the further they are from the country. I find their professed 'love' for my homeland hard to reconcile with the fact that they (or their forefathers) left.....some of us decided to stick it out during the bad times.

God love them really, they wouldn't know Irishness if it got up and bit them. When they are on their 97th pint in 'Colleen O'Bannion's 1798 Memorial Pub' in NY or Boston they should stop before they slip a few dollars into the tin and ask themselves where their charity is going. Most Irish people regard Irish-Americans as a bloody joke.
 
#16
Was working in SF (no, not THEM, San Francisco) a few years ago and was taken out for several beers by a couple of nice Irish blokes that I was working with. We visited various 'Irish' bars and ended up in what had to be the most hardcore Republican dive in the whole of the United States.

Being somewhat uncomfortable with the ambience, the swinging effigy of Maggie in the corner and the portraits of hunger strikers that adorned the walls, I declined to either contribute to the collecting pot or even to put money over the counter, choosing instead to use my keys to redecorate the toilet walls with the legend..

"FCUK THE IRA, THE BRITISH ARMY WAS HERE''

Felt much happier then. :D
 
#17
"The war on some terrorism" makes for a good sig on forums frequented by yanks. :twisted:

A lot of them have some truely bizarre views on what Eire and NI are all about.

When they start on about 'freedom' and 'occupation' just ask 'em when they're going to give Hawaii back? Usually confuses the f**k out of 'em.

http://www.freehawaii.org/
 
#19
cdo_gunner said:
"The war on some terrorism" makes for a good sig on forums frequented by yanks. :twisted:

A lot of them have some truely bizarre views on what Eire and NI are all about.

When they start on about 'freedom' and 'occupation' just ask 'em when they're going to give Hawaii back? Usually confuses the f**k out of 'em.

http://www.freehawaii.org/
I agree with your post, but really, 'Éire'? - an bhfuil tú ábalta an Gaeilge a labhairt?' If not, call it Ireland or the ROI. Using the term 'Éire' is considered offensive to citizens of the Republic of Ireland....it suggests illegitimacy (something Sinn Féin/PIRA are keen to promote).
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#20
cdo_gunner said:
"The war on some terrorism" makes for a good sig on forums frequented by yanks. :twisted:

......
Given the septic armed forces love of acronyms, perhaps GW's campaign should be titled the War Against Some Terrorist Elements ?
 

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