Are NHS workers paid fairly?

Are the NHS paid enough

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 35.2%
  • No

    Votes: 33 31.4%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 8 7.6%
  • They are paid fairly according to what they are worth...

    Votes: 27 25.7%

  • Total voters
    105

syrup

LE
I would imagine that if your on intensive care and having people seriously ill and dying all day on your very busy shift you may feel a tad under paid and be enjoying the few perks this is brought about for you.
Then again if your on a n empty cancer ward and all you've got to do is re-enact Greece or choregraph the YMCA for social media you think your wages are ok and your also enjoying he perks.
Swings and Roundabouts.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Yep.........couldn't see it from the garden other than the back and sides. Same stone as the house and garden wall, so we thought it was 'ours'....until we walked round the outside, turned the corner and saw the queue. I still think we should have bought it. I must sneek a peek on google earth and see how it fared.
ETA its still there, Fountains Rd, Golspie.....kind of glad we didn't buy it. Current or other kwners appear to have sold off a chunk kf the orchard and the Chippie is now enlarged to a shitty looking 'coffee bothy'. Plus side, the medical centre is right behind, but a car park and develoment make the immediate are look a bit like a 'zone in transition'. House still looks ok, though now rendered over the stonework. Unsurprisingly, its up for sale.

The Co-op has just been upgraded.

I would suggest however that you have dodged a bullet. The Cofee Bothy has been pretty popular the last decade or so, but with the NC500 in place the number of tourists has risen dramatically.
The large car park to the rear of the medical centre is not actually for public use, although that does not stop the twats parking there.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Sorry, I thought you were referring to the move from private practice to board that you described before.

The changes to tax and NI were not exclusive to the NHS. Nor were changes to pension schemes; the reality of actuarial affordability impacted private sector pensions much more than public sector.

Average earnings in the public sector have been higher than the private sector in every year since 2008 and were so for much of the previous decade too.

The bottom line is that the ONS statistics show the public sector earning more, working less hours, having higher skill levels, retiring earlier and having better pension benefits than the private sector.

So the way to find space for salary increases is through better productivity. But that requires innovation, vision, leadership and employee engagement.

It may be true if you average entire sectors but I know for my profession, I earn less and will not be able to retire earlier than counterparts, in fact will be working longer.

A few years ago, I attended my 25 year reunion with university classmates. I was the only one in public sector, I was the only one still working full time.
 
Swmbo is a senior nurse, band 8 and has worked her way up via the critical care route. Long hard hours.

My wife is a Band 7 Midwife. She qualified as a mature student in 2010, and has worked her tits off, put her name forward and did all she was trained to do, not the minimum amount possible that her lazy colleagues think is acceptable, then got to manage her own team in 2017. She's on OK money, but like everything, it's relative to her responsibilities.

Being a Health care professional is a bit like the forces, you can sit as a Band 5 Nurse/Private all your life if you really want to, or you can go that little further and seek promotion/enhancement and thus more money.

A good example is Nursing and Midwifery, they share the same registration authority, but in reality are a world apart.

A newly qualified Midwife (Band 5), after their receptee period (usually a year) can apply for the mentoring course and others to qualify quite quickly as a Band 6. It's unusual to find a Midwife as a Band 5, unless they're a) Happy not doing any courses; b) Absolutely useless.

A new Nurse qualifies as a Band 5, and there are quite a few sit at that band. Lets not kid ourselves that it's shite money. Once qualified you can be earning £30k in 7 years for doing not much in the way of career enhancement or Personal Development.

My only gripe is charging Healthcare Professionals for their degree courses and then not reimbursing them back in a decent salary to pay if off. Upping the entry criteria and then not recognise it is just pure opportunism.

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Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I would imagine that if your on intensive care and having people seriously ill and dying all day on your very busy shift you may feel a tad under paid and be enjoying the few perks this is brought about for you.
Then again if your on a n empty cancer ward and all you've got to do is re-enact Greece or choregraph the YMCA for social media you think your wages are ok and your also enjoying he perks.
Swings and Roundabouts.

Middle Miss F is in both those situations.
She works in a wee hospital usually running the MIU but works on ward too, so is busy there.
However she's also volunteered for shifts in a virus assessment centre. It would be fair to say we're not too busy up here. But the board is supplying food, range of sandwiches, quiche, sausage rolls, soup, as are the public. They can't move for cakes and tins of sweeties.

A bit further north, in my assessment centre, our free food is reminiscent of military days! Team consists of 4 of us, so 2 cheese, 2 Ham sandwiches and a thermos of soup.

When working in the urgent dental care centre, for some reason, we don't even qualify for the soup and sandwiches!

And Middle Miss F has the gall to try to tell us how busy she's been in her centre when she forget that I can see exactly how many people have attended!
 
Sorry, I thought you were referring to the move from private practice to board that you described before.

The changes to tax and NI were not exclusive to the NHS. Nor were changes to pension schemes; the reality of actuarial affordability impacted private sector pensions much more than public sector.

Average earnings in the public sector have been higher than the private sector in every year since 2008 and were so for much of the previous decade too.

The bottom line is that the ONS statistics show the public sector earning more, working less hours, having higher skill levels, retiring earlier and having better pension benefits than the private sector.
2008 was key certainly in my case. But when will people understand that the figures are skewed by the Whitehall mandarins, doctors etc. In my case I came on to the IR pay scale by agreement from the TUC when HMRC had been formed. No great shakes perhaps but it did underline the fact that the Governments previously had breached the equal pay act for decades. The only time can ever remember being paid more in direct correlation to the rate of inflation was under Callaghan and that was due to the dire need of lower CS to be able to survive. We stood still as a result.
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Local facebook groups dont yet appear to have discussed the morality of local businesses advertising x% discount to NHS on production of an ID card.

That's a hell of a lot of Social media diversity analysts / stationary cupboard custodians and equal ops compliance managers pushing to the front of queues at ALDI - and getting discount big eats from the takeaway.
You're not wrong, my local supermarkets have the obligatory "NHS Only" hour, then open to the public once the shop has emptied of our "vital" workers. The queue to get in starts around 30 mins before official opening times and length depends on day of the wwek, so queue moving nicely and then some NHS bod comes along and demands to be let in before the plebs that have been queueing for half hour or more because he/she "couldn't" get there at the alloted time. Ref takeaways, it was bad enough that students had a discount but now as students have gone home, they have to target a new audience to show how woke they are.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
You're not wrong, my local supermarkets have the obligatory "NHS Only" hour, then open to the public once the shop has emptied of our "vital" workers. The queue to get in starts around 30 mins before official opening times and length depends on day of the wwek, so queue moving nicely and then some NHS bod comes along and demands to be let in before the plebs that have been queueing for half hour or more because he/she "couldn't" get there at the alloted time. Ref takeaways, it was bad enough that students had a discount but now as students have gone home, they have to target a new audience to show how woke they are.

In my opinion there should not be any need for specific times for NHS staff.

In any case, they don't coincide with my shift patterns so don't use them. Think the only such slots up here are Tuesday and Sunday mornings.

Regarding discounts, was there not a trend a few years back for MOD90 to be worth a discount or two?
 
Why not?

It's a swindle.

Like those gangmasters who charge the fruitpickers rent, travel and hire of tools, with no choices, thus clawing back (with tax benefits) a huge chunk of the shitty wages.

George Orwell wrote about this stuff in the Road to Wigan Pier.

If you can't walk to work/not on a decent bus route, you've no choice but to drive. Why is that translated in to free money for the employer? No way, not ever, does a car park fee just cover operation of the car park.

How about being a community clinician who has to travel as part of their work, but was expected to pay for their car parking at the office?

Commuting to work and paying is one thing, but having to use your car for work, and then being expected to pay for the privilege is quite another

I told my wife that she should leave her car at home and walk in to work (1 mile), and then walk back home to collect her car to attend clinics or home visits, if they insisted she must pay. The Trust relented in the end, probably an outbreak of common sense.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
How about being a community clinician who has to travel as part of their work, but was expected to pay for their car parking at the office?

Commuting to work and paying is one thing, but having to use your car for work, and then being expected to pay for the privilege is quite another

I told my wife that she should leave her car at home and walk in to work (1 mile), and then walk back home to collect her car to attend clinics or home visits, if they insisted she must pay. The Trust relented in the end, probably an outbreak of common sense.

How about an NHS facility which is housed in a "Centre for Health Science" which is shared with a university.
University technically own the site and charge for parking.
Even during the current crisis when all NHS parking is meant to be free.
 
How about being a community clinician who has to travel as part of their work, but was expected to pay for their car parking at the office?

Commuting to work and paying is one thing, but having to use your car for work, and then being expected to pay for the privilege is quite another

I told my wife that she should leave her car at home and walk in to work (1 mile), and then walk back home to collect her car to attend clinics or home visits, if they insisted she must pay. The Trust relented in the end, probably an outbreak of common sense.


Touching a nerve there.

I had a car for over 2 years with my first post-Civil Service job.

As i already had my own car, and the commute to the office was a nightmare, I did office trips by train/feet and only took the car away on my very frequent site visits UK wide. It never got used for a single private journey, not once. Wife and kids never even saw it.

However, it seems there's a thing, unfamiliar to CS or indeed squaddies, called "benefit in kind".

Long story short, because i had the car available for personal use, regardless of the fact (accepted, in writing, by HMRC) that I'd never used it, i got a tax bill for around 10k.


Bastards.
 
Long story short, because i had the car available for personal use, regardless of the fact (accepted, in writing, by HMRC) that I'd never used it, i got a tax bill for around 10k.
Did you not think of getting a clause put into the insurance policy that prohibited private use?
 
Did you not think of getting a clause put into the insurance policy that prohibited private use?

I had no idea there was any issue at all. Never heard of "BIK", until the pay bloke had pulled his thumb out and done whatever paperwork alerted HMRC.

Obviously, I handed the keys over, went to the MD and had my contract amended that same day-pool car.

Too late then.
 

TheManFromWem

Old-Salt
Touching a nerve there.

I had a car for over 2 years with my first post-Civil Service job.

As i already had my own car, and the commute to the office was a nightmare, I did office trips by train/feet and only took the car away on my very frequent site visits UK wide. It never got used for a single private journey, not once. Wife and kids never even saw it.

However, it seems there's a thing, unfamiliar to CS or indeed squaddies, called "benefit in kind".

Long story short, because i had the car available for personal use, regardless of the fact (accepted, in writing, by HMRC) that I'd never used it, i got a tax bill for around 10k.


Bastards.
"benefit in kind". .............is that like "friends with benefits" or wrong, tree, barking ??
 

TotalBanker

Old-Salt
I think doc and nurses (and ancillary staff like porters etc) prob are under paid, but i don't think kicking in the doors of the Treasury with a shovel to start lobbing money at the NHS is the right way to go. Firstly if the gov't did this, would Trusts direct funds there anyway, secondly I think a better way is to look at what we want the NHS to do and how its doing it at the moment. Ive been in waiting rooms at hospitals where docs are trying in vain to tell someone he ought to have turned up a week ago but because he (patient, not the doc) doesn't speak English they've had to get a translator. All the while the person the Doc SHOULD presumably be seeing is waiting and getting bored. My mum used to work for my local trust, in an admin role (ensuring all docs esp the new intakes) got all their training done. She said the waste at hospitals was incredible.
I think there should be a system, and one that hospitals enforce, where right to treatment is checked and barring risk of death people who shouldn't be there are shown the door. For health tourists, every airline (this may not be a problem now as they all go under!) should be made to check for insurance docs for people coming in and for it to be a prerequisite anyone who enters legally has health insurance. If a carrier cant prove it did so then it pays. Clearly this wont be applicable for those crossing the channel on a lilo but my understanding of reported health tourism is that people come across "normally" and disappear after their appendix or baby or whatever is sorted. Interpreters to be provided by patient, or if they are here legally their embassy
 
Everything got too much for one Nurse that SWMBO knew last night.
No one is sure of the details, but he took his own life, they think because of the pressure.
Really sound bloke from the brief message I had.
She isn't in work tomorrow, bottle of Gin, lots of tonic and I'm going to have to be a ******* big Broad shoulder for the tears that are going to be flowing tonight.

Didn't know you, but you were a top lad and a good nurse by all accounts.
. RIP.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Everything got too much for one Nurse that SWMBO knew last night.
No one is sure of the details, but he took his own life, they think because of the pressure.
Really sound bloke from the brief message I had.
She isn't in work tomorrow, bottle of Gin, lots of tonic and I'm going to have to be a ******* big Broad shoulder for the tears that are going to be flowing tonight.

Didn't know you, but you were a top lad and a good nurse by all accounts.
. RIP.

The anxiety levels within the NHS are extremely high at present.
Major issues are PPE, whether real or media inflated.
Risk to self.
But a major anxiety is that we may catch covid and pass it onto others whether family or patients
 
The anxiety levels within the NHS are extremely high at present.
Major issues are PPE, whether real or media inflated.
Risk to self.
But a major anxiety is that we may catch covid and pass it onto others whether family or patients
She is absolutely terrified of bringing it home.
She'll stand on the doorstep tonight, she'll strip off (no pictures, stop giggling in the cheap seats) on the doorstep and get straight into the shower.
I folliw her with a can of Dettol spray disinfectant, anything she touches is soaked in dettol.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
She is absolutely terrified of bringing it home.
She'll stand on the doorstep tonight, she'll strip off (no pictures, stop giggling in the cheap seats) on the doorstep and get straight into the shower.
I folliw her with a can of Dettol spray disinfectant, anything she touches is soaked in dettol.

I was a hair's breadth away from not returning home when started in covid assessment centre.

It was a long conversation with Mrs F about pros and cons of living at home or moving out for the duration. The deciding factor was impact on Tiny Miss F.

My current regime is leave home, drive to a local health centre, change into different clothes, drive to assessment centre in health board car. Change into scrubs for shift.
Do shift, PPE for patients.
End of shift, out of scrubs, shower. Drive in health board car to health centre.
Shower, change into original clothes from morning. Drive home in own car.

This puts a buffer between home and assessment centre but does make a long day even longer.
 
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