Are Islamists/Jihadis the new National Socialists?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by CrapSpy, Jul 26, 2005.

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  1. Watched 'The New Al-Qaeda' on BBC 2 last night, and found it very interesting albeit rant inducing.

    A few things struck me:

    1. New anti-terror laws can't come soon enough if we are to prevent the likes of that Saudi dissident (Al-Masarwi?) from running AQ websites from within the UK (no wonder the French call the UK 'Londistan').

    2. AQ have shown us the way in using NEC to achieve effect (apologies for the doctrine).

    3. During footage of the 'hijacking' by extremists of a MCB meeting at a mosque in east London, their was one individual of note. He was shouting at the camera such things as 'Britain will be a Muslim country whether you like it or not' and 'kill Amercian and British soldiers' etc etc. If it is the will of these Jihadists to impose their religion/way of life/culture upon the UK, is this not comporable with Hitler's ambitions for Europe?

    4. How could the leader of the MCB be surprised by extremists within the Muslim community, when his own meeting was hijacked by them?

    If we do not have the anti-terrorist laws we need to curb these people, could not the race relations act be used for similar purposes?
  2. Not while I draw breath. I'm not going to dive off down a tangent here, but the reason these barmy maniacs flourish here is because the concepts and ideals of democracy are well established here - no sniggering at the back.

    However, as other groups with other agendas have found, you can only push the mandarins around so much before the gloves come off, little deals are made and people end up disappearing at 3 am. I have no issue with peoples of all political persuasions, backgrounds and beliefs peddling their trash, but when it becomes a very real threat, action must follow and - perhaps most crucially - that action must be proportionate to the threat and commensurate with it.

    If that means the wholesale termination of that threat - root and branch eugenics if you will - then so be it. Some of these clowns are seeking the end of our nation - whether they ultimately realise that is a matter for much discussion - but we cannot allow ourselves to be caught slacking.

    To answer CS' question - no they aren't. The Nazis appealed directly to a population ravaged by war, reparations and hype, and had a ready made scapegoat to boot. Whilst certain Muslim elements may harbour a certain amount of mistrust in our leaders and the British public as a whole, they are nowhere near as ready to believe en masse that a jihad will show them the way. IMHO.
  3. I didn't watch it but my understanding of al qaeda, old or new, is that it was an invention of the CIA.
    For this reason alone it should be annihilated.
  4. For whatever reason(s), be it the lingering socialist cry of 'internationalism', a severe case of imperialist guilt or just an inability to lead and make 'nasty' decisions (I know which one I'm going for) the New Labour governments since 1997 have tortured the United Kingdom with a series of ill-thought-out pronouncements and policies, which have all but ripped the heart out of the country. Yes, there have always been rotten eggs in public as well as private service, but are all policemen and women inherently racist? No. Are all military personnel capable of and responsible for the maltreatment of PoWs? No. Thanks to Neu Arbeit; people, institutions and companies within our country are now almost paralysed by the fear of being accused of some ‘anti-social’ crime. Equality amongst sexes and races has been overtaken by inequality as playing fields are levelled and positive discrimination is embraced. Political debate is stifled as liberalism is taken to read that anything left of centre on the political spectrum is ok to espouse, yet anything right of centre is inflammatory, derogatory and inherently evil.

    CS, your comment “could not the race relations act be used for similar purposes?” is a valid one, yet sadly, that particular Act is (with the possible exception of one or two cases) seemingly reserved for use in one direction only. If the extreme Islamists / Jihadis who are attacking our way of life were secular white organisations, of course they'd be tarred with the Nazi / fascist / racist brush. Sadly though, what's sauce for the goose isn't sauce for the gander in this case. It disgusts me that my / our country, which has an extremely long liberal-democratic tradition and whose Parliament is known as the Mother of All Parliaments, can kow-tow to so many unelected lobbyists and focus group apparatchiks, consistently ignoring the wishes of the majority. I refuse to apologise for my political beliefs regarding extremism as I’m as disgusted with those on the Right as with those on the Left as I am with any and all religious extremists, yet even voicing concern that maybe there are elements of our society who are anti-democratic and wish to destroy the very way of life that allows them to flourish is taken by some to indicate a racist mentality.

    Only the electorate of the United Kingdom can bring about a change in leadership and sadly “we” (not guilty!) have elected TCB and his bunch of acolytes and ne’er-do-wells for another term, so who knows how much further into the abyss we’ll tumble before we as a country stop apologising for our desire to conserve our national identity, our traditions, customs and way of life.
  5. One of the troubles seems to be that in our Society, over a lot of years, the right to "free speech" on issues seems to have transformed into a believed "right to get what I want".

    the massive expansion in "cultural diversity" which has promoted the rights of individuals to have things their own way, rather than balancing respect for the individual against the overall society is part of this.

    We have seen a rise in single issue pressure groups, who always seem to get what they want, and when they dont, they turn violent, as they feel it is their god given right to not only be heard, but also given in to - and when they dont, they turn violent. Animal Rights Protestors, Anti Capitalism, Miners, Republicans, save the local playing fields campaigns, anti nuclear weapons - had we knocked some heads together 20 years ago we wouldnt have been here now.

    Ultimatley, perhaps one of the key things behind this whole debacle has been 30 years of pandering and giving in to IRA terrorism, rather than taking a harder line on it earlier - maybe the Moslems have seen the provo's get what they want through the use of violence and though "we'll have some of that"???
  6. CS is right - this stuff is rant inducing! In fact, sod this - I'm off to start my own group of activists, composed of calm, intelligent British persons from any political background, colour, race, religious persuasion and starsign and seek to forge Britain anew! Now, I need a medium, like a website, to recruit them. Any clues? :)
  7. Who's ranting? :oops: :D
  8. Couldn't agree more DB, the apologist nature of our country, UK in general and England in particular, is both alarming and more than a bit depressing. It seems as if we are constantly apologising for something (potato famine, Empire etc) yet are less than firm in our desire to have others apologise to us (IRA, Japanese).

    We have a proud and long tradition of democracy, freedom of speech, diversity and (let's be frank) killing people who threatended our way of life. Is it beyond the wit of TCB to protect that?
  9. The truth is he wasn't surprised, nor are any muslim community leader surprised. However Blairs tame muslims have been feeding Blair with lies for years, Blair needs their vote so accepts their lies and rewards them.

    The brit born terrorists who murdered and attempted murders by the terrorists have been very awkward and inconvenient. The community leaders have been shown to be telling lies and unable or dare I say unwilling to do anything about the lunatics in their midst. These leaders have consistently said " we're all nice and peaceful and if there are any radicals among us we're on top of it" it's pure b*llocks, but they cannot change from what they have said...they'll lose face.
  10. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    This Darth geezer said:
    Another very basic difference is that the Nazi programme was aimed at the majority in Germany.
    The Muslim community in Britain is a minority (unless you live in particularly high density locations like Leicester or Bradford )

    The Neue Arbeit Grande Illusion is that we all live in a multi cultural environment.

    If you come from Islington, or Cheetham Hill or Rotherham then yes, maybe it's true.

    If you come from Curry Mallet, Langton Matravers , Plockton or Coverack chances are the only non-WASP you see around you is the chemist or maybe the District Nurse

    This is not racism, just reality.


    Le Chevre
  11. What I think I am trying to say is that National Socialism was based upon a Nation State (Germany), whereas the Jihadi movement is based upon a religion/belief system (some sort of 'Shield of Achilles' quote called for here), or is an inter-nation state? So has the Nation of Islam been ravaged by war and made sacpegoats of? I would suggest yes. Also, Islam is not a minority in inter-state terms and a small minority have already acheived global effect. Remember how the National Socialist movement began; from very small beginnings...
  12. Comparisons with National Socialism are difficult on an "apples and oranges" level...the relative contexts are just too different. However, let's try to eke out some similarities as an interesting exercise:

    1. Both are culturally specific; although Islamist beliefs are not remotely racist, like NS they are both culturally specific. One revolves around a quintessentially Germanic spiritualism (that did evolve into an idea of racial supremacy), the other a romantic interpretation of the zenith of Islamic achievement and the re-establishment of the Caliphate. So do both revolve around almost mythical, utopian tropes? Yes. I wish Jonathon Meades was around to comment, his stuff on this is very good.

    2. Both are unswervingly dogmatic and authoritarian. You must obey the prevailing ideological orthodoxy or else.

    3. Violence, war and acts of extreme barbarity are seen as a necessary engine to achieve the ultimate aim of both ideologies.

    4. Both bounced off of the prevailing and opposite ideological axes of the time; NS versus Communism and Capitalism, Islamism versus Western Liberal Democracy and Globalisation. Both are essentially reactionary.

    5. Both need (or needed) the Jews as an eternal, unambiguous bogeyman. If Israel didn't exist no doubt Usama would need to invent it.

    The biggest problem with comparisons is that National Socialism was so unambiguously Germanic, whilst Islamism, using a perverted vision of The Umma is so non-secular and international it almost reminds me more of early 20th Century Communism; the Jihadists really are "international brigades" as far as they are concerned. It is a "liberation struggle" designed ironically to lead to enslavement for those of us who would not believe or accept Dhimmitude.

    I urge interested readers to look at "The Crisis of Islam" by Bernard Lewis. Lots of interesting things to say about how the faith has spawned, unwittingly or not, Islamism.