Archbishops assault on US foreign policy

Do you agree with Dr Rowan Williams?

  • Yes, absolutely

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • In fact he is right

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • He is rather right

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • There are only elements of truth in his views

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rather disagree

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Completely disagree

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Send old idiot in a madhouse

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/25/nbishop225.xml

Dr Rowan Williams criticised America for intervening overseas with a "quick burst of violent action" and claimed its foreign policy had created the "worst of all worlds".
...
He also said that the modern Western definition of humanity was not working, and that there was something about Western modernity that "really does eat away at the soul".

Dr Williams said the crisis in Iraq was caused by America's misguided sense of its mission in the world and ridiculed the "chosen nation" myth in America and the idea that what happened there was God's purpose.

He claimed the US had lost the moral high ground since the September 11 attacks
...
He added: "We have only one global hegemonic power. It is not accumulating territory: it is trying to accumulate influence and control. That's not working.
It seems to me that I have heard something like this previously... Yes, mr.Putin sounded exactly the same words.
 
#2
The Archbishop is a man of staggering intellect.

It was an enormous surprise when T. Bliar (Roman Catholic in disguise) forwarded his name to HM The Queen for appointment.

It was assumed that a 'safe' 'Bliarite' would be appointed.

It was then predicted that Dr. Williams would be a serious thorn in Bliar's side. That event did not materialize as far as I can judge - sadly!
 
#3
Dr Williams said he believed he had a role to play in the political arena in the UK by keeping before government "the great question of how you can actually contribute to a responsible civil society in a context where you've undermined most of the foundations on which that society can be built".

He offered only mild criticisms of Islam in the magazine Emel, describing the political solutions offered by the Muslim world as "not the most impressive".

He also said he was surprised that the small Christian community in Pakistan was seen as "deeply threatening by an overwhelming Muslim majority", and he condemned the Israeli security wall that cuts Bethlehem in two.

He might be trying for a putin type position as well.

Everyones a critic, yet very little actually try and help. I guess condemning the US is the easier route.
 
#4
Sadly the Archbishop is one of a generation of Western self-loathers, and Putin is more than clever enough to know how to play up to this idea to curry external favour.

[/quote]He offered only mild criticisms of Islam in the magazine Emel, describing the political solutions offered by the Muslim world as "not the most impressive".
Says it all.
 
#5
Off thread I know but why has Isquared gotten an Oxygen tag? Thought his posts quite good generally!
 
#6
ghost_us said:
Dr Williams said he believed he had a role to play in the political arena in the UK by keeping before government "the great question of how you can actually contribute to a responsible civil society in a context where you've undermined most of the foundations on which that society can be built".

He offered only mild criticisms of Islam in the magazine Emel, describing the political solutions offered by the Muslim world as "not the most impressive".

He also said he was surprised that the small Christian community in Pakistan was seen as "deeply threatening by an overwhelming Muslim majority", and he condemned the Israeli security wall that cuts Bethlehem in two.

He might be trying for a putin type position as well.

Everyones a critic, yet very little actually try and help. I guess condemning the US is the easier route.
Ghost, as I understand you disagree with the Archbishop. Would you like to elaborate. Where he is wrong exactly?
 
#7
It is not accumulating territory: it is trying to accumulate influence and control. That's not working.
So, if we Spams were to take ground rather than try to gain influence and control he'd be cool with that?

On another note, undoubtedly some of my fellow citizens see the GWOT as a sort of Godly crusade but I've seen no signs whatsoever that this is the national view. Assigning characteristics to all based on the actions of a few is rather silly. Or so I've been told.
 
#8
KGB_resident said:
ghost_us said:
Dr Williams said he believed he had a role to play in the political arena in the UK by keeping before government "the great question of how you can actually contribute to a responsible civil society in a context where you've undermined most of the foundations on which that society can be built".

He offered only mild criticisms of Islam in the magazine Emel, describing the political solutions offered by the Muslim world as "not the most impressive".

He also said he was surprised that the small Christian community in Pakistan was seen as "deeply threatening by an overwhelming Muslim majority", and he condemned the Israeli security wall that cuts Bethlehem in two.
He might be trying for a putin type position as well.

Everyones a critic, yet very little actually try and help. I guess condemning the US is the easier route.
Ghost, as I understand you disagree with the Archbishop. Would you like to elaborate. Where he is wrong exactly?
OK here goes.

First, you need to define the meanings in his statement. For instance, what exactly is a "responsible civil society" and who's definition will get to be de facto? His?

Consider this. The Archbishop, whether he likes it or not is linked to the US by cultural, social, language, economic, et al ties. When one says western culture, they are not just pointing out the US but the UK as well and by proxy.. him as well.

The article suggests that this bishop is in the ring for a political angle. Making such a statement is neither constructive or helpful and simply serves to allow him his 15 minutes of fame.What has he done to help the situation other than exacerbate anti-western views?

He knows that no one from the US will come over and lop his head off for criticizing them, but he wimped out on the muslims most likely for this very reason.

My take on it, be part of the solution and not part of the problem. It's because of the west that he can even publicly make statements like this.

I have no patience for control freak priests selling fear and salvation from a mystic construct.
 
#9
...
"It is one thing to take over a territory and then pour energy and resources in to administering it and normalising it. Rightly or wrongly, that's what the British Empire did in India, for example."
...
He has a point here.

I mean bumbling into a pint sized midden of a country trying to install democracy and even doing a shockingly poor job of nicking all the natural resources? Is that shouldering the whiteman's burden? I think not.

The Cousins haven't even bothered to enslave anyone or forced opium upon them or induced a decent megadeath famine this really is no way to run an Empire. Judging from the events of the Indian Mutiny if the old Imperial Brit's had been in charge the mass graves would be filling up at a much faster rate. Now after less than a decade these blubbering colonials desperately want to leave before even having efficiently sucked the place dry.

And when we leave there's none of this humanitarian dithering we put a Germanic toff in charge to do it overnight. Screwing the pooch properly, creating a really bollox out geopolitical mess like Pakistan. Makes me misty eyed so it does.

The Bish is right the Septic's are really slack when it comes to the Christian duty of applying the righteous sword of the lord to the heathen natives. I mean really it's enough to make a chap slap his rhino whip against his jodhpurs in disgust and savagely abuse the nearest suitably nubile native house servant.
 
#12
That is a ludicrous caricature of British India that has about as much basis in reality as the attempts by modern-day apologists to make it sound like shangri-la. However, in a way you are completely right. To compare an imperial adventure with it's roots in the 17th century with a 21st century conflict is nonsensical.
 
#14
By the way the Archbishop was in New York on 9/11, very close to the attack. I am sure he can criticise Islam but he is allowed to talk about other issues as well!
 
#15
alib said:
...
"It is one thing to take over a territory and then pour energy and resources in to administering it and normalising it. Rightly or wrongly, that's what the British Empire did in India, for example."
...
He has a point here.

I mean bumbling into a pint sized midden of a country trying to install democracy and even doing a shockingly poor job of nicking all the natural resources? Is that shouldering the whiteman's burden? I think not.

The Cousins haven't even bothered to enslave anyone or forced opium upon them or induced a decent megadeath famine this really is no way to run an Empire. Judging from the events of the Indian Mutiny if the old Imperial Brit's had been in charge the mass graves would be filling up at a much faster rate. Now after less than a decade these blubbering colonials desperately want to leave before even having efficiently sucked the place dry.

And when we leave there's none of this humanitarian dithering we put a Germanic toff in charge to do it overnight. Screwing the pooch properly, creating a really bollox out geopolitical mess like Pakistan. Makes me misty eyed so it does.

The Bish is right the Septic's are really slack when it comes to the Christian duty of applying the righteous sword of the lord to the heathen natives. I mean really it's enough to make a chap slap his rhino whip against his jodhpurs in disgust and savagely abuse the nearest suitably nubile native house servant.
LOL! :D Good Drills, that man!
 
#16
Redshaggydog said:
Off thread I know but why has Isquared gotten an Oxygen tag? Thought his posts quite good generally!
You are now in 'big trouble'. You have made a response to a poster who:

a. Dared to differ in opinion with a moderator.
b. Dared to criticise a former First Sea Lord - now a 'Bottler' Brown Noser!

Rules to observe:

1. Be really 'politically correct' and wholly 'liberal'.
2. Do not be nasty to 'Sven'!

PS:

Regarding the 'First Sea Lord' and comment add: 'Twat'. Thank God no soldier has yet followed this chancer's lead.
 
#17
goodkurtz said:
A lively piece there alib. How many large malts did it take to write that then?
Last large Malt I had was in Santa Venera.
 
#18
Isn't Rowan Williams who spouts all that rubbish about HM being appointed by God? If that madman was around 100 years ago I'm sure he'd be raving about how the empire was gifted to HM and how the godless heathens deserved to be enslaved as they weren't christians. If he was around 500 years ago he would be quite happy for his monks to go off and slaughter lots of brown people as long as they brought him lots of gold and jewels back.

Hypocritical religious cnut.
 
#19
Actually were Imperialism has all gone horribly wrong is the bum sex thing. Any flagrant English sexual bungy jumper post Eton looked to the Empire for fresh young meat. Indeed this was a wellspring of the dogged missionary impulse so understandable to an ex-Anglican seminarian like the Bish. I would cite here Empire and Sexuality by Hyam and the sterling examples of Chinese Gordon, Sir Richard Francis Burton, Lawrence and Thesiger all eager planters of the flag in parts unknown.

Alas if Kinsey is to be believed even in the prudish 50s 30% of The Cousins just take a stroll into their native pissior and leap upon the nearest gaping orifice. They then make some bad art. It is such a waste.
 
#20
PoisonDwarf said:
Isn't Rowan Williams who spouts all that rubbish about HM being appointed by God? ....
You seem to have missed he's head cleric in the established Church and the whole point of that is the monarch has dubs on the Pope by The Grace Of God. Several of the Tudors would literally gut you and feed you your goolies for questioning such simple constitutional matters.
 

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