AR15 weilding security guard saves lives

#1
The evil black gun strikes again:

[video=youtube;COZm7uCCjHM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COZm7uCCjHM[/video]


Apologies for the mong spelling in the thread title--fingers are still thawing out from a cold day at the range.
 
#2
at least he wasnt welding it.
 
#4
The reaction of the two shits does seem to reinforce the 'don't bring a handgun to a rifle fight' argument though.
 
#6
The video of course does not reflect sterling marksmanship but it captures very well just how fast and furious (see what I did there) a real gunfight is.
 
#7
Whacked one through a wall, WTF was he aiming at?
While I doubt that the security guard really intended it, such a shot is part of the training package I provide in certain tactical courses where a bad guy often thinks hiding behind a sheet rock (plasterboard) and wood frame wall provides cover rather than merely concealment. Many of my students, having only seen film or video game gun-fighting are quite amazed when I demonstrate through and through shots with a wide variety of calibers through mock-up walls and doors typical to most US construction, in stark contrast to the several feet thick stone walls of so many of the buildings in the UK. I have been at crime scenes where an errant shot has traveled all the way through a 40' wide frame home and still had enough punch to have killed someone.
 
S

swampmonster

Guest
#8
Yes i do see you point.....nice to the the bad folk running like **** away empty handed =)

Not sure if I was walking down that street and took rounds from the Rifle i would be so chuffed though....
 
#9
While I doubt that the security guard really intended it, such a shot is part of the training package I provide in certain tactical courses where a bad guy often thinks hiding behind a sheet rock (plasterboard) and wood frame wall provides cover rather than merely concealment. Many of my students, having only seen film or video game gun-fighting are quite amazed when I demonstrate through and through shots with a wide variety of calibers through mock-up walls and doors typical to most US construction, in stark contrast to the several feet thick stone walls of so many of the buildings in the UK. I have been at crime scenes where an errant shot has traveled all the way through a 40' wide frame home and still had enough punch to have killed someone.
Damn right JJH, Cover from view does not equal cover from fire!
 
#10
What did the AR-15 bring to that incident that a handgun wouldn't? Apart from slower draw time, less accurate aim (at close quarter) and presenting a danger not only to the innocents in the shop that were nearly killed, but innocents in the street outside and in passing vehicles?
 
#11
What did the AR-15 bring to that incident that a handgun wouldn't? Apart from slower draw time, less accurate aim (at close quarter) and presenting a danger not only to the innocents in the shop that were nearly killed, but innocents in the street outside and in passing vehicles?
I agree (although I would advocate an 18" barrel 12 bore pump) on these apparent circumstances.
 
#13
With all respect, the video resembles more Keystone Cops than anything else.

JJH, you may teach a shot through the wall in certain circumstances but in this situation, with two people you are trying to protect in the same room, it strikes me as being potentially homicidal. Then to cap it all off the guard thunders out of his back room, loses his footing and cannons straight into the front door.

Yes, he manages to prevent an armed robbery but at such a risk to defenceless people one wonders whether it is worth the potential cost.
 
#14
I would quite happily argue anyone who is willing to commit robbery with a firearm is also more than willing to commit murder with the same weapon, therefore you can safely say the guard also prevented two murders.
 
#17
Most US cop gun fights happen at under three feet and at most three shots are fired in under three seconds. They are quite liable to entirely miss the perp or shoot bystanders, they actually do this more often than civilians defending themselves do. Cops usually survive these encounters, they have some training, wear body armor, are usually sober and criminals are normally even more terrible shots with a handgun. It's quite true draw time is a factor here, those that die often never had a chance to unholster their weapon.

At only slightly longer ranges it becomes difficult to hit with a pistol anything as small a major organ while moving if you have the training level of a typical cop, perps often survive as well, sometimes with a hole or five in them. I'd still rather be the one with the modern sporting rifle in hand and not be bothering with drawing at all. Almost any automatic longarm is preferable to the fanciest plastic pistol. I do have an old 870 under the bed but I'd go for a autoloader and light loads of 00 if my paranoia had any basis in reality.

This chap might well have been better equipped for the situation if he'd had a Model 10 on his hip rather than faddishly wrangling a military style weapon. It does illustrate how hard it is to shoot straight even with a rifle, very few people are at their most coordinated when a chap runs into the room waving a firearm especially when shot in the leg. Still it did the job and he restrained himself to firing a couple of very unsafe rounds across the hood. I know of more than one innocent bystander killed in Belfast by assault rifle bullets going through multiple walls. Though what you might learn from this vid is armed criminals tend to flee when fired upon, so that walty 30 round mag is really just for looking badass.
 
#18
Most US cop gun fights happen at under three feet and at most three shots are fired in under three seconds. They are quite liable to entirely miss the perp or shoot bystanders, they actually do this more often than civilians defending themselves do. Cops usually survive these encounters, they have some training, wear body armor, are usually sober and criminals are normally even more terrible shots with a handgun. It's quite true draw time is a factor here, those that die often never had a chance to unholster their weapon.

At only slightly longer ranges it becomes difficult to hit with a pistol anything as small a major organ while moving if you have the training level of a typical cop, perps often survive as well, sometimes with a hole or five in them. I'd still rather be the one with the modern sporting rifle in hand and not be bothering with drawing at all. Almost any automatic longarm is preferable to the fanciest plastic pistol. I do have an old 870 under the bed but I'd go for a autoloader and light loads of 00 if my paranoia had any basis in reality.

This chap might well have been better equipped for the situation if he'd had a Model 10 on his hip rather than faddishly wrangling a military style weapon. It does illustrate how hard it is to shoot straight even with a rifle, very few people are at their most coordinated when a chap runs into the room waving a firearm especially when shot in the leg. Still it did the job and he restrained himself to firing a couple of very unsafe rounds across the hood. I know of more than one innocent bystander killed in Belfast by assault rifle bullets going through multiple walls. Though what you might learn from this vid is armed criminals tend to flee when fired upon, so that walty 30 round mag is really just for looking badass.

Your point is well taken and I for one do not post these to make fun of the participants (at least the victims of gun assault) but rather to emphasize what you point out--such encounters occur in nAnoseconds and usually at very close ranges. While it is true that one can never say with 100% certainty how they would react (and if armed, perform in defending their life), training is the only real way to at least increase your chances of survival if the worst does occur. In my training courses, using a firearm is one's last resort but best chance to survive a deadly encounter with a perp. To this end, not only is muscle memory development critical to winning the OODA loop, but, given the almost impossibly short time in which you have to react, having the right attitude (situational awareness and the overwhelmingmental attitude and will to not merely survive but to prevail no matter what is a vital part of repetitive training.

In terms of weaponry needed for this eventuality, just as in the military, much depends on the " terrain and situation" and the likely threat. For these reasons, if protection is desired in a structure, and like most students one is unwilling/unable to practice weekly with a pistol, then the weapon of choice should be a 12 bore short barreled pump shotgun with defensive ammo (#4 or larger shot and/or or slugs). If outdoors in public, then obviously a concealable pistol is the best option BUT it requires lots of range practice and dry firing to raise your odds of surviving a deadly encounter where FBI studies clearly show that action invariably defeats reaction vo you as a victim must rtransition VERY quickly into the "attacker" for as long as it takes to neutralize (kill, incapacitate, cause to surrender or flee) the threat and no longer lest you lose your right of self defense.
 
#19
What did the AR-15 bring to that incident that a handgun wouldn't? Apart from slower draw time, less accurate aim (at close quarter) and presenting a danger not only to the innocents in the shop that were nearly killed, but innocents in the street outside and in passing vehicles?
Victory?
A sudden "Oh, SHIT!!" moment on the part of the naughty people as their carefully planned robbery suddenly turned into imminent death, wounding and/or long imprisonment at the hands of a man with a bigger gun.

An SMG type bang-stick would be the weapon of choice for this confrontation. A security guard with an AR-15 seems rather over-equipped for the job, but I'd suspect that there have been incidents of baddies wearing body armour that justified the 5.56mm.

JJH, you may teach a shot through the wall in certain circumstances but in this situation, with two people you are trying to protect in the same room, it strikes me as being potentially homicidal. Then to cap it all off the guard thunders out of his back room, loses his footing and cannons straight into the front door.
He had been shot in the leg.

I heard of incidents where people had been shot through brick walls, by a rifle-that-I-must-not-name.
 

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