Appealing a BFG ban

#1
Hello all,

A few months back I popped into my BFG office in JHQ to enquire about deregistering my car, as I was about to be posted rather sharpish to UK (only a couple of weeks grace). The bloke behind the counter (Mr T***y) told me I could do everything from UK, so, happy as Larry, off I went. I got back to UK and found out I should have sent off a BFG 414 before I left, cue long (and admittedly rather understanding) correspondence with Customs and Immigration. The advice I received from Customs stated that I would have to use a VAT 414 to register my car and, as a result, may face a 5 year BFG ban and all that entails.

I'm a long way off returning to Germany, but would like a bit of advice from anyone in the know;

1. Is there an appeals process I can resolve this issue with?

2. Is my case eligible for appeal?

3. Can this be done now, as opposed to waiting until I return to BFG?

4. Does anyone have any examples of BFG bans being lifted on appeal?

I know that the black and white answer is that I'm a pr*ck, and I should have read and memorised all 8000 pages of BFG standing orders. The fact remains though that I was given duff advice by someone in an influential position. Quite obviously if he'd told me which paperwork to fill out at the time, I would have done so.

I was under the impression that the extended BFG bans were brought in a few years ago to crack down on all those dodgy folk who were registering cars in their kids names and selling them on every couple of months. Surely, as I had no intentions of selling or making money from my car, this could be taken into consideration?

Any advice/words of wisdom/pointing of fingers/guffawing from the floor is appreciated.
 
#2
I know several people who have appealed successfully over a BFG ban.

A phone call/letter to the C&I Liaison office stating the facts of the matter (quoting the names and place of advice received), if you can show it was a genuine mistake, you acted in good faith and tried to rectify the problem as soon as you became aware.

The Col there is very helpful and has been doing the job long enough to usually enable him to differentiate between the blagger and the genuine

Hope this helps
 
#3
Can it be done without any future posting to Germany on the horizon? I'd like to nip it in the bud now so that, if my appeal is unsuccessful, I can make other motoring arrangements. (ie; a bicycle)
 
#4
I would imagine it would be better to address the issue now rather than waiting for another posting. The problem C&I have is the ever increasing abuse of the tax-free system, especially with the advent of E bay and other such sites.

People buying goods tax free and selling them on is jeopardising the whole shabang and making them (C&I) ever more sceptical to excuses
 
#5
It really f*cking winds me up that some folk have been getting away with murder for years in BFG, but I make a small paperwork whoopsie and I'm shot down.

I still have the paperwork from C+I, I'll knock up a letter now, cheers.
 
#6
If you were told this by the guy behind the desk then you have grounds for an appeal. You have nothing to lose by appealing. The worst they are going to do is say no, and leave you with a 5 year ban.

Write a letter stating that you had a fast ball, and that you asked the BFG for help. If you have any witnesses to him telling you a pile of hoop, all the better. If you contacted customs and excise ref the situation, then get their side of the deal and any names and dates when you contacted them.

On the other hand if you are not returning to BFG it wont affect you.
 
#7
awww I thought this might be a snozcumber question your majester.
 
#8
chocolate_frog said:
If you were told this by the guy behind the desk then you have grounds for an appeal. You have nothing to lose by appealing. The worst they are going to do is say no, and leave you with a 5 year ban.

Write a letter stating that you had a fast ball, and that you asked the BFG for help. If you have any witnesses to him telling you a pile of hoop, all the better. If you contacted customs and excise ref the situation, then get their side of the deal and any names and dates when you contacted them.

On the other hand if you are not returning to BFG it wont affect you.
I have every intention of returning to BFG but have only just left. I don't have a clue how long it will be before I go back.

The annoying thing about BFG bans is that it's ONE punishment for a MULTITUDE of mistakes/crimes. The 5 year ban carries over too, so this would effectively end any hopes I have of ever buying a tax free car in Germany again.

One question - do similar rules and regulations apply to tax free vehicles in SHAPE? If they do, would a BFG ban still count there?
 
#9
skintboymike said:
I have every intention of returning to BFG but have only just left. I don't have a clue how long it will be before I go back.

The annoying thing about BFG bans is that it's ONE punishment for a MULTITUDE of mistakes/crimes. The 5 year ban carries over too, so this would effectively end any hopes I have of ever buying a tax free car in Germany again.

One question - do similar rules and regulations apply to tax free vehicles in SHAPE? If they do, would a BFG ban still count there?
I have a mate who has just come from SHAPE will ask him. He did say that the NATO way of registering cars was a lot less of an ARRSE ache than the BFG system.
 
#10
Hi,
I used to work in the BFG office in Bruggan and left just as these new rules and regulations came in. I know of a few people that appealed against these bans and have had them lifted. The thing is from what I can remember the ban doesn't just affect you, if you are married it will also affect your wife.
If you do a letter to the Col of Customs and Immigration and copy that letter to the Col of VLO also see if the boss of your new unit can put in a support letter saying you are trustworthy or some sort of character reference it would all work in your favour.
 
#11
Yes you are able to buy tax free cars but who ever told you that the SHAPE way of registering cars was easier than BFG obviously has a different perception of what makes his asre ache, last year when we came to reg our cars through SHAPE we had to "sell" both cars to the entitled person, potentially making them have at least two owners when trying to resell, also complicating the insurance side of life. Wait in line for about an hour and a half at the local Belgian testing centre, to have the cars inspected, in far greater detail and to a higher standard than BFG or even MOT paying about 60 euros for the pleasure. Fill in many and varied forms in quadruplicate perfectly or they are returned, and then wait and wait and wait before the Belgian civil servant who's job it is gets round to processing the paperwork so that you are entitled to your special No plates.

On recipt of smart new plates you immediately stop being a possible tourist for whom a modicum of tolerance is made and you become the target for every local Belgian (who seem to believe you are the spawn of the devil) as they take great delight in cutting you up at every opportunity. Or it could just be somthing to do with my driving but I can't believe that I'm a wonderful driver.
 
#12
Just got my letter back from the Lt Col at BFG VLO, he's f*cked me off at the high port with a rather snotty letter about BFG standing orders. Cheers anyway to all those who offered advice.

Although it is my fault, my main gripe in all of this is that the system sees no difference between someone trying to make a fortune by selling on tax free cars, and someone who messed up his deregistration paperwork. There should be differing levels of punishment for the varying crimes.
 
#13
skintboymike said:
Just got my letter back from the Lt Col at BFG VLO, he's f*cked me off at the high port with a rather snotty letter about BFG standing orders. Cheers anyway to all those who offered advice.

Although it is my fault, my main gripe in all of this is that the system sees no difference between someone trying to make a fortune by selling on tax free cars, and someone who messed up his deregistration paperwork. There should be differing levels of punishment for the varying crimes.
If I remember correctly those at BFG C&I all had Mercedes, or other top end cars.

Sorry it did not work out for you.
 
#14
nottyash said:
skintboymike said:
Just got my letter back from the Lt Col at BFG VLO, he's f*cked me off at the high port with a rather snotty letter about BFG standing orders. Cheers anyway to all those who offered advice.

Although it is my fault, my main gripe in all of this is that the system sees no difference between someone trying to make a fortune by selling on tax free cars, and someone who messed up his deregistration paperwork. There should be differing levels of punishment for the varying crimes.
If I remember correctly those at BFG C&I all had Mercedes, or other top end cars.

Sorry it did not work out for you.
:x
 
#15
The way I see this is that you have been made a scapegoat, C&I/BFG and all involved now have their figures even for the year.

They did the same with me a few years ago. I was also from JHQ and posted out in a hurry, the BFG office advised me on how to go about things and due to delays (out of my hands) I was punished. I did everything they asked me to do but got shat on for it.

I didn't appeal or anything and my ban is now spent, but I'm sure people like us even out their annual statistics so that other people can get back to buying and selling top end cars on a daily basis whilst going unpunished.
 
#16
I just drove back from Germany, told the customs at Dover slapped my original plates on, did the Tax at the PO in Dover and threw the BFG plates in the bin. Speak to Customs not the dithering officer who thinks he knows better. I have never had a problem since, you have to remember BFG plates are just a way of the MOD tracking your car and the plates are false too!!
 
#17
on
Discovery....WTF's going on!?? So ...you swapped the plates at Dover!?? Ok...so you you are driving to "X" in the UK...have UK plates on you're vehicle but you're Log book (if you even bothered keeping it in car and didnt put it in the bin) is a BFG 73 Fuel Card with a completely different VRN!! (and ur tax disc). Lucky you didnt get stopped!!

Then you got Tax at a PO....Good job!! However...you ditched the BFG plates that DON'T belong to you and therefore didnt dereg you're Vehicle with BFG. Expect percussions my friend!! Hmmm....did you even register the vehicle at DVLA and apply for a 414 before you left BFG?? Oh and did you get you're MOT done and UK insurance? Oh no...thats before you got to DVLA and show them BFG 73 and then SWAP PLATES back to UK plates.

It's bone idol morons like you that make it worse for innocent people like SB get a 5 year ban!!

Oh...did I mention I am a BFG Licensing Officer!

P.S BFG plates are not FALES...it is a a registered Driving Agency like DVLA and you're details are kept on the database for a long time. Those who dont deregister their vehicles (e.g not send a 4003 to BFG VLO including plates and BFG 73) will show up and be actioned. You're arrogance disgusts me!

SB mate...I have been a BFG Licensing Officer for only 3 months and I am simcerely sorry that this guy at JHQ mis informed you. Its basics and He should know better than to give you advice if he isnt in the know. Fight it even more mate. Luckily I was trained well in my job. Good luck mate. People above get away with it (for now) but they will get the "phone call". I can tell you are sincere.

P.S Excuse my Grammar...its the weeknd and whisky is flowing!!
 
#18
Before you go off on one matey, my car was Insured for the UK, actually it was insured Internationaly by my Insurance company my car also had an MOT, it complied with everthing in the UK and also I spoke to the HMR&C several times before importing my car and I am completely bomb proof have still got the form to prove it.

Lets talk about BFG shall we, its a scam saying that I must have insurance from a BFG endorsed company that will be the NAAFI then, I appealled and said this was against competion rules and bugger me I won. Thus exposing a complete old boys network of back handers etc.

When I left BFG I went to the MTO told him shown him my posting order but more in importantly my Import certificate to the UK issued by the HMR&C. By the way they informed DVLA that my car was changing plates.

Right now lets talk aboy the plates shall we. When I was pulled for the 20th time while back in the UK for having false plates that what it comes up on the DVLA computer which the Police are linked into, I had a note put on my Reg to say they were BFG.
 
#19
You have to use a BFG Recognised company and FYI I hardly ever get a squaddie come in the office with NAAFI Insurance, It's usually either a local, well known German Insurance company or a UK INSURANCE COMPANY!! You have many to choose from, I can see why they let you use a different Insurance Company!! As long as the insurance company recognises a BFPO address and knows fully you are BFG and can produce you with a "Green Card", you're good to go!!

Don't know WTF you are on about mate with regards to the MTO! You're 414 must be taken with you and shown at DVLA...by which YOU and only YOU (as the VEHICLE OWNER) can register that vehicle in the UK at DVLA. No one can "inform" the DVLA...you have to take all of you're docs to you're local DVLA and register within 3 days of hitting the UK. After having you're MOT done. It's standard regulations. Look it up in Standing Orders. I look at them everyday.

Excuse me but I am unsure of you're last paragraph as grammer is a little dodgy. I know mine is not great but I dont understand wht you are on about!!

I quote "I had a note put on my Reg to say they were BFG"

...You said you changed plates at Dover so this would be impossible!!?? You also stated you threw plates away after PO in Dover?? You are quite simply talking b***ocks!

The plates are not false either. They are not registered with DVLA because you DEREGED with them when you came to BFG and registered with BFG!! It's a completely different vehicle registration Agency.

Quite frankly, I don't give a damn about you're mess...I just don't think you should be posting on here that you changed the plates at Dover (which you have already contradicted yourself with) and "slapped" on the UK plates....then got TAX.

You have made it sound "so easy" and you are misleading people who do it the correct way.

People are happy to go the whole mile to get the Tax free vehciles and cheap fuel... but then when leaving BFG try to "cut corners" and cant be arsed to dereg properly by chuckin plates away that don't even belong to you.

I suggest you read you're post again and think about how you have come across to other people. You could have an effect on peoples lives and they could end up in SB's position and paying TAXfor not doing it the correct way.
 
#20
From: Discovery001
To: monkey_wench
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:18 am
Subject: Advice
Suggest you get off yr High Horse matey, I carried out everthing required to Import my car back into the UK, bugger me that includes Insurance, MOT and Tax fancy that, and also The BFG plates I had to buy them so they are mine and therefore they went into the bin as those plates cannot be issued again as a BFG LO you should know that


Thanks for the PM "matey"! Don't be shy!!

If you carried out everything PROPERLEY which is required for BFG Dereg and DVLA reg, then congratulations, well done! However...as I have already stated...don't go posting s**t like you have previously...this causes confusion and innocent people incuring Tax charges on their Vehicle(s). Spot the difference in you're first post to the other one's....hmm...MORE DETAIL DIVULGED EACH TIME!!

As for paying for plates and they belong to you...wrong again! No one pay's for plates on initial BFG. The only reason why people pay for plates is due to their carelessness of the Free issued plates...e.g Broken/Lost. They are MoD property...not Yours! Just the same as You're MoD 90...if it's lost/broken... you pay for a new one after reporting it to the RMP's..however it's still a Military document and belongs to the MoD. (This was how it was at my unit).

Oh and again..you are wrong...BFG plates ARE re-issued...I had some turn up at my office just a few weeks ago!!

I think you need to take a step back mate and think who is in the know and how is making a show!! :)
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top