App 22 Med discharge

Bikky2117

Swinger
Good morning all,

I am going to be discharged from the service soon under QR 9.385. Rececived my discharge letter from APC last week and it says; As no opportunity for transfer to another cap badge has been identified by the APC Career Manager, a medical discharge from the Service has been authorised as the SP is considered as “Ceasing to fulfil Army medical requirements, that is; Medically Unfit under Existing Standards”. This action has come about as a result of a grading of Medically Not Deployable (Permanent) or MND (P).

So, still haven’t received any information about pension tier under which I am going to be discharge.

Is discharge under QR 3.385 a medical discharge or admin discharge on medical grounds?

Am I entitled to get medical pension or not?

Any further questions are welcome.

Thanks alot.
 
Last edited:

Bikky2117

Swinger
I am not a 'manning' expert but it reads to me like an admin discharge. If it is, the pension is not payable immediately. If I were you I would pose the direct question to the APC Career Manager.
Admin discharge?? Are you sure ? But when I was given the brief about App 22 by my RCMO, he told me if APC can’t find me any MND job that I have listed on App 22 then I would be medically discharged. And i will receive all the benefits and medical pension. Did he lie to me?

And who do I contact to find out if I am getting medical pension or not under QR 3.985?

Many Thanks
 
Admin discharge?? Are you sure ? But when I was given the brief about App 22 by my RCMO, he told me if APC can’t find me any MND job that I have listed on App 22 then I would be medically discharged. And i will receive all the benefits and medical pension. Did he lie to me?

And who do I contact to find out if I am getting medical pension or not under QR 3.985?

Many Thanks
Probably didn't lie, just not fully aware of the regulation(s).

This is the Reg in question which you stated:

9.385. Ceasing to Fulfil Army Medical Requirements, that is Medically Unfit under Existing Standards.
a. The competent military authority to authorize termination is the Director General Army Personnel Centre or in the case of a soldier who has not completed Phase 1 training, the commanding officer.
b. The Armed Forces Act 2006 Statutory Instruments govern this authority.
c. This paragraph applies to a soldier whose medical category falls below entry standards for a recruit or employment standards for a trained soldier appropriate to his corps, employment and length of service, but is nevertheless not so low as to render him unfit for any form of Army service.
d. A soldier graded as in sub-para c is not to be terminated if further employment for which he is medically acceptable can be found for him in his corps. If this is not possible and he is medically acceptable and recommended for transfer to another corps, the case is to be referred by the commanding officer of the unit in which he is serving to the APC.
e. If other employment in his own corps is not possible, and if transfer to another corps is not authorized, the soldier is to be terminated under this paragraph. If a soldier is unwilling to accept other employment within his own corps, or to be transferred to another corps which has expressed its preparedness to take him, then he is to be terminated under para 9.414 and not under this paragraph.
f. AF B 204 procedure as laid down in the pamphlet Medical Documentation in the Army Medical Services 1995 (AC 61416), paras 0526 - 0528 is to be concluded prior to submission of applications for termination on AF B 130.

It might be appropriate to speak with Unit Admin personnel in the first instance, they should guide you to the PAP 10 (if it still exists) section on appeals.

I hazard a guess that whatever medical condition you suffer from isn't temporary nor serious enough* to warrant receiving a medical discgarge and instant pension**

* Not attempting to belittle your ailment(s) here just highlighting the range of medical ailments that may lead to discharge.

** Not sure if you could even get an instant pension on discharge under current AFPS.
 

Bikky2117

Swinger
Probably didn't lie, just not fully aware of the regulation(s).

This is the Reg in question which you stated:

9.385. Ceasing to Fulfil Army Medical Requirements, that is Medically Unfit under Existing Standards.
a. The competent military authority to authorize termination is the Director General Army Personnel Centre or in the case of a soldier who has not completed Phase 1 training, the commanding officer.
b. The Armed Forces Act 2006 Statutory Instruments govern this authority.
c. This paragraph applies to a soldier whose medical category falls below entry standards for a recruit or employment standards for a trained soldier appropriate to his corps, employment and length of service, but is nevertheless not so low as to render him unfit for any form of Army service.
d. A soldier graded as in sub-para c is not to be terminated if further employment for which he is medically acceptable can be found for him in his corps. If this is not possible and he is medically acceptable and recommended for transfer to another corps, the case is to be referred by the commanding officer of the unit in which he is serving to the APC.
e. If other employment in his own corps is not possible, and if transfer to another corps is not authorized, the soldier is to be terminated under this paragraph. If a soldier is unwilling to accept other employment within his own corps, or to be transferred to another corps which has expressed its preparedness to take him, then he is to be terminated under para 9.414 and not under this paragraph.
f. AF B 204 procedure as laid down in the pamphlet Medical Documentation in the Army Medical Services 1995 (AC 61416), paras 0526 - 0528 is to be concluded prior to submission of applications for termination on AF B 130.

It might be appropriate to speak with Unit Admin personnel in the first instance, they should guide you to the PAP 10 (if it still exists) section on appeals.

I hazard a guess that whatever medical condition you suffer from isn't temporary nor serious enough* to warrant receiving a medical discgarge and instant pension**

* Not attempting to belittle your ailment(s) here just highlighting the range of medical ailments that may lead to discharge.

** Not sure if you could even get an instant pension on discharge under current AFPS.
Thanks for your reply. I have read that part in PAP 10.

So, looking into the situation and all the replies I definitely have to go down the appeal route, am i correct?

And due to my injury my career is ruined, this is a permament life changing injury which stays with me rest of the life. And army trying to kick me out in 4 months without any pension that sustained due to the service!! It’s not fair!! No one should get treated like this!

Right then, after making an appeal if they do not change anything in their original decision then is legal proceedings my next step?

Sorry, guys I am just stressed out now!!
 
Thanks for your reply. I have read that part in PAP 10.

So, looking into the situation and all the replies I definitely have to go down the appeal route, am i correct?

And due to my injury my career is ruined, this is a permament life changing injury which stays with me rest of the life. And army trying to kick me out in 4 months without any pension that sustained due to the service!! It’s not fair!! No one should get treated like this!

Right then, after making an appeal if they do not change anything in their original decision then is legal proceedings my next step?

Sorry, guys I am just stressed out now!!
Understand your frustration & disappointment. You may also benefit from a chat with RBL or Scottish Legion (depending on your location).

Many possibilities in the points you raise so not easy to answer by someone who left long ago, things change frequently and it's often difficult to keep abreast of change.

If you believe you've been wronged then it's your decision as to whether to appeal or not. From what you've already posted my take is you're not exactly against being discharged, just the manner of it. So think carefully on whether to appeal, gather as much info & advice youo can from those in a position to give to the appropriate and current guidance, then make your decision.

Taking successful legal action against the MoD is not easy and will be long and drawn out and you again need to seriously consider whether to do it. Bear in mind none of us on here know the circumstances of your injury/ailments you say were caused by the army then you should have had an AFCS claim and that will or could muddy any waters. If this is the route you end up taking be very careful who you get to represent you, you get what you pay for.
 

Bikky2117

Swinger
Understand your frustration & disappointment. You may also benefit from a chat with RBL or Scottish Legion (depending on your location).

Many possibilities in the points you raise so not easy to answer by someone who left long ago, things change frequently and it's often difficult to keep abreast of change.

If you believe you've been wronged then it's your decision as to whether to appeal or not. From what you've already posted my take is you're not exactly against being discharged, just the manner of it. So think carefully on whether to appeal, gather as much info & advice youo can from those in a position to give to the appropriate and current guidance, then make your decision.

Taking successful legal action against the MoD is not easy and will be long and drawn out and you again need to seriously consider whether to do it. Bear in mind none of us on here know the circumstances of your injury/ailments you say were caused by the army then you should have had an AFCS claim and that will or could muddy any waters. If this is the route you end up taking be very careful who you get to represent you, you get what you pay for.
I really appreciate for what you have advised here. I am 100% sure they are wrong in my case.

My Injury Summary: 14th July 2017, in unit physical training, playing rounders, slipped and sustained a bimalleolar fracture to his left foot. Managed conservatively with immobilisation. Long term complications following this severe trauma:
- highly restricted ankle ROM, plantarflexion 15 degrees, Dorsiflexion 10 degrees from plantargrade.
- post traumatic arthritis, including remodelled talocrural and calcaneocuboid joints and subtalar coalition.
- chronic pain due to loading from altered permanent biomechanics
- severe short tissue shortening into lower leg musculature
- abnormal and permanent gait pattern and subsequent limp


This is just an overview of my injury. I am still waiting for 3rd surgery to my ankle and if it doesn’t work then next option from the Dr is ankle fusion. Apart from these due to injury my life has changed overnight. I struggle on daily basis with even small things like going up and down the stairs, standing more than 10 mins which causes pain and discomfort in my ankle, etc.

They think that my ability to obtain gainful civilian employment is not deemed to be significantly impaired? How would I get most of the physical demanding jobs in civi street with this permanent injury .

And I did my AFCS claim in 2018 and they have given my interim award on tariff 12. So, next year after 4 yrs they will review it in mid 2022 for final award. I am hoping my tariffs will go higher and it should do!

Now, I am fully convinced that I will have a long and daunting fight with the system which has treated me unfairly. I am ready for that challenge too.

Lastly, thanks once again for all the replies here. I really appreciate it.
 

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Admin discharge?? Are you sure ? But when I was given the brief about App 22 by my RCMO, he told me if APC can’t find me any MND job that I have listed on App 22 then I would be medically discharged. And i will receive all the benefits and medical pension. Did he lie to me?

And who do I contact to find out if I am getting medical pension or not under QR 3.985?

Many Thanks
Many thanks to Dun-n-Dusted for his details replies. This exactly why you need to as APC whether it is an admin discharge or a medical discharge.
 

Bikky2117

Swinger
Many thanks to Dun-n-Dusted for his details replies. This exactly why you need to as APC whether it is an admin discharge or a medical discharge.
I have just got my reply from SO1 Occupational Health APC. She confirmed me that its a medica discharge but they do not have any information about Tiers.
 

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Also, have a look at AGAI volume 2 Chapter 49.
 
I have just got my reply from SO1 Occupational Health APC. She confirmed me that its a medica discharge but they do not have any information about Tiers.
Then I'd say you are receiving very good handling in respect of your forthcoming medical discharge. I didn't get anywhere near that after 35 years service, not even info from our AGC Admin Staff (except to wrongly inform me I was not covered by AFCS). The best advice I got was on my FMB and the letters I received from APC, my unit never even forwarded me a copy of any of them in case my personal copy went missing, no final interview with CO etc.

Best you can do now is ensure you know what your resettlement entitlement is and take it. Ensure you have a future roof over your head.
 

Bikky2117

Swinger
Then I'd say you are receiving very good handling in respect of your forthcoming medical discharge. I didn't get anywhere near that after 35 years service, not even info from our AGC Admin Staff (except to wrongly inform me I was not covered by AFCS). The best advice I got was on my FMB and the letters I received from APC, my unit never even forwarded me a copy of any of them in case my personal copy went missing, no final interview with CO etc.

Best you can do now is ensure you know what your resettlement entitlement is and take it. Ensure you have a future roof over your head.
Yes, I am also very much convinced with answer from SO1 OH APC. She has confirmed it for me. Which I really appreciate her for that. It is a slight relief now. But on the other hand, I am eagerly waiting for my Pension forecast to arrive. Definitely there will be a lump sum but I am keen to know MD under which Tier. After that information only, I would be able to move another step forward.
 
I really appreciate for what you have advised here. I am 100% sure they are wrong in my case.

My Injury Summary: 14th July 2017, in unit physical training, playing rounders, slipped and sustained a bimalleolar fracture to his left foot. Managed conservatively with immobilisation. Long term complications following this severe trauma:
- highly restricted ankle ROM, plantarflexion 15 degrees, Dorsiflexion 10 degrees from plantargrade.
- post traumatic arthritis, including remodelled talocrural and calcaneocuboid joints and subtalar coalition.
- chronic pain due to loading from altered permanent biomechanics
- severe short tissue shortening into lower leg musculature
- abnormal and permanent gait pattern and subsequent limp


This is just an overview of my injury. I am still waiting for 3rd surgery to my ankle and if it doesn’t work then next option from the Dr is ankle fusion. Apart from these due to injury my life has changed overnight. I struggle on daily basis with even small things like going up and down the stairs, standing more than 10 mins which causes pain and discomfort in my ankle, etc.

They think that my ability to obtain gainful civilian employment is not deemed to be significantly impaired? How would I get most of the physical demanding jobs in civi street with this permanent injury .

And I did my AFCS claim in 2018 and they have given my interim award on tariff 12. So, next year after 4 yrs they will review it in mid 2022 for final award. I am hoping my tariffs will go higher and it should do!

Now, I am fully convinced that I will have a long and daunting fight with the system which has treated me unfairly. I am ready for that challenge too.

Lastly, thanks once again for all the replies here. I really appreciate it.
I'm no expert but I'm guessing you've recently had a medical?

What were you rated

If it's forecasted your not going to be improve even with support than really like me those days of soldiers are done.

Have a look at putting a claim in for AFIP if you can cite your injury being through your military service, it's the equivalent of disability benefit for civvies and if awarded is backdated from the time you put an application in.
 
Good morning all,

I am going to be discharged from the service soon under QR 9.385. Rececived my discharge letter from APC last week and it says; As no opportunity for transfer to another cap badge has been identified by the APC Career Manager, a medical discharge from the Service has been authorised as the SP is considered as “Ceasing to fulfil Army medical requirements, that is; Medically Unfit under Existing Standards”. This action has come about as a result of a grading of Medically Not Deployable (Permanent) or MND (P).

So, still haven’t received any information about pension tier under which I am going to be discharge.

Is discharge under QR 3.385 a medical discharge or admin discharge on medical grounds?

Am I entitled to get medical pension or not?

Any further questions are welcome.

Thanks alot.
Apply for your Armed Forces Independant Payment

"Eligibility​

You could be eligible for AFIP if:

  • you were injured on or after 6 April 2005, and
  • you are given an AFCS GIP which is in Band A - C.
If you are eligible, you will get the payment for as long as you’re entitled to this level of GIP. You won’t be reassessed in the future."
 

Bikky2117

Swinger
I'm no expert but I'm guessing you've recently had a medical?

What were you rated

If it's forecasted your not going to be improve even with support than really like me those days of soldiers are done.

Have a look at putting a claim in for AFIP if you can cite your injury being through your military service, it's the equivalent of disability benefit for civvies and if awarded is backdated from the time you put an application in.
I did not have a medical board recently. My discharge is a result of App 22 process. Army failed to find a MND PID for me. So, I am going to be medically discharged.

TBH I have had many Dr appnts with NHS orthopaedics,physios, Podiatrist input, RRU cse. After 4 yrs still I am receiving treatment in hospital and waiting for another surgery. So, my ankle is very stiff and rigid. I simple word it is f**ked. Its a permanent disability for rest of my life. Because of the pain and less mobility in and around my ankle, I struggle on daily basis.

So, without any diagnosis yet can I apply it now?
 

Bikky2117

Swinger
Apply for your Armed Forces Independant Payment

"Eligibility​

You could be eligible for AFIP if:

  • you were injured on or after 6 April 2005, and
  • you are given an AFCS GIP which is in Band A - C.
If you are eligible, you will get the payment for as long as you’re entitled to this level of GIP. You won’t be reassessed in the future."

I did put a AFCS claim back in 2018. As it was very early stage of my injury and treatments, I was given interim award of Tariff 12. So, next year around May it will be a 4yrs point and they will give me Final award. Which I am sure should be at least on Tariff 11 and it will give 30% GIP.
 
I did not have a medical board recently. My discharge is a result of App 22 process. Army failed to find a MND PID for me. So, I am going to be medically discharged.

TBH I have had many Dr appnts with NHS orthopaedics,physios, Podiatrist input, RRU cse. After 4 yrs still I am receiving treatment in hospital and waiting for another surgery. So, my ankle is very stiff and rigid. I simple word it is f**ked. Its a permanent disability for rest of my life. Because of the pain and less mobility in and around my ankle, I struggle on daily basis.

So, without any diagnosis yet can I apply it now?
I'm no expert, the RBL is the best shout for entitlements but if you tick the boxes than you should get an award.

Make sure you mention that when discussing how your going to transition to the civvie world because the award can be substantial and it is TAX FREE i.e doesn't count towards earning, you may be entitled to a blue badge, free bus travel in London with the Freedom card and other bits
 

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