Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Forces_Sweetheart, Oct 31, 2002.
The heart of the site is the forum area, including:
There is at least one - he uses this site!
Does it give away too many secrets if we say just how many I'd heard there are?
Eleven of the 25 helicopters so far delivered - out of an order for 67 - have been mothballed in a move described as "wasteful" by the National Audit Office.
So I guess at under 20?
Lease the bloody things to another air arm , and at least get them working. Out of interest, why can't the current crop of Blue Beret Gods fly them?
I've got space in the sinner back-garden if they want to stash a couple in there.
I could turn 'em upside-down and use them as lawn mowers.
(I understand that they will turn themselves upside-down if you try to fire the missiles anyway.)
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am a Sky Blue warrior
I sugest if you have a genuine interest in AH issues you come check out the aviation boards (dont worry we have kept the big words to a minimum )
BTW you are all wrong the AH is awseome and there are more than one AH driver who reads this site
I have been a Sky Blue warrior for 25 years give or take.
It is the norm to store new aircraft prior to introduction into service, I was more than pleased to pick 6 brand new Lynx from storage with the rest of my Squadron after my conversion course in 1980.
By the way:
Instead of slagging of us Sky Blue warriors why not come and join us?
If you think you're good enough!!!
Wow, Rogue Trooper on this web site, loved the stories in 2000 AD, well done on catching the traitor.
I had a twenty hour watch yesterday, with four hours overtime, in two feet of water. I have no desire to hang around with a bunch of upper-class delinquents, do twenty minutes work, and then spend the rest of the day loafing about in Paris drinking gallons of champagne and having dozens of moist, pink, highly-experienced young French peasant girls galloping up and down my . . . Hang on!
Are you 'hawking' for a new man?
OK, bit of controversy.
Helicopter pilots are overpaid and upmarket taxi drivers. Discuss
They need the Apache to dispel this image. Comment
The Apache will replace the tank. Debate
I will start on the last question. Bollox. As an infanteer if I need support, I can always whistle up a tank or four. Could I do the same with an Apache. The answer is 'no' isn't it? So if we reduce the numbers of tanks in order to have Apache, we on the ground will be worse off, won't we?
Apache would be useful against massed targets, but their aren't too many of those around at the moment.
Tanks work in the rain and mist, they don't have to go back miles in the rear to refuel or bomb up, and most importantly they provide CLOSE support to the Infantry. Equally as important, it doesn't take years to train tankies, so with a new tank, the current situation vis a vis trained pilots would not have arisen.
OK, so tankies are a bunch of stay warm nancy boys who like to drive everywhere, but at least they are where we need them.
Bit unfair to give the AAC grief over the lack of pilots for the Apache - blame the morons in the DPA who delayed buying the pilot training until it was too late. Still, they're civil servants so no accountability for them. You've got to be in uniform to get nailed for incompetence after all.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for competition in defence procurement but only when you have more than one credible supplier and enough time to run a competition.
theyll be antiques by the time weve enough qualified pilots and itll be time to retrain for the new helicopter
AH should be seen as a complement to, not a replacement for armour, and vice versa. By definition, AH is far less constrained by terrain and geography than tanks, and can also react far more quickly to changing scenarios (eg if land forces react to a decoy attack, helos can redeploy far more quickly when the real enemy thrust becomes evident).
Also, tanks are extremely vulnerable to air attack. Hopefully, you guys won't be in a position where Air Superiority cannot be guaranteed by friendly Air Power, and you won't ever experience hostile air strikes. However, there are some mighty clever and cheap UAVs coming on the market now with some mighty clever and cheap submunitions that can ruin the day of a tankie.
However, as you rightly point out, there will always be weather that will keep air on the deck (although at least Longbow will be able to engage without eyeball, assuming that you have the ROE). Also, only armoured infantry and armour can take and hold ground. Finally, in modern PSO, helos are not much good, I would imagine, for winning the old hearts and minds battle.
In short, you inf need a balanced mix of armour AND AH.
Dang, sensible and accurate posts all over the shop, no opportunity for humour.
Tanks may be vunerable to UAV's with big bombs on but AH's are very vulnerable to 120mm SABOT doing a mile a second...
Out of interest, what else is AH vulnerable to, I know it'll survive something like <= 23mm according to something I read but what else are you likely to be brought down by or are AH's basically flying 'armoured' tanks, but with more weapons and speed.
Regarding how much punishment an AH-64 can take, much has been said regarding the Apache that was 'downed' by the Iraqis (which was actually mechanical failure). However, little has been said regarding the other helos in that formation. They were all engaged by a wide variety of weaponry, and nearly every one was damaged, several extremely severely. However, apart from the one that put down due to mechanical problems, they all recovered safely. So they really can take a lot of punishment. Also, it was arguably poor US Army tactics which led to them being beaten up so much. Certainly, the USMC had more success with its less capable AH-1Ws during the campaign.
However, no matter how good the helo, or how many self sealing fuel tanks etc they have, if it takes damage to the tail rotor, main rotor hub, or the soft pink things flying it, it's probably going down. Something like a 2S6 will therefore cause MAJOR concerns for the helo chappies until it's taken out. Clearly, the ego's of the pilot's are difficult to miss as well!!!
I now walk sideways out of the firing line and await some rotary wing types to correct me...
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