Apache Dusk?

Discussion in 'Tanks, planes & ships' started by AndyPipkin, Dec 4, 2012.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Telegraph article:

    British Army's fleet of Apache helicopters 'could be scrapped' - Telegraph

    Probably overstating the case re scrapping them but the fact remains that the UK paid something like 3 times the price for 'W'AH64 than if we'd just bought AH64D straight off the Mesa production line in a pathetic and patronising attempt to pretend we still have a helicopter industry. And now those very expensive 'W'AH64D's are looking pretty outdated:

    US Army Prepares for Full-Rate AH-64E Production | Military.com
  2. Should have bought the AH-1 SuperCobra.
    Did everything we actually needed and was a fuckton cheaper to buy and operate.
  3. That's not a fact, it is a load of bollocks. The UK bought a load of flat-packed AH which were assembled by Westland, with a far better engine slapped in.

    Assembling in the UK was cheaper than not.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Well it was a British Army Apache pilot who told me they cost 3 times as much and that wasn't justified by the performance benefits. So make of that what you will.

  5. Did he also sell you some beans?

    Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)
  6. Bad CO

    Bad CO LE Admin Reviews Editor Gallery Guru

    Everything I'm told indicates that the engine is much better than that available to other users but it is simply inconceivable that this didn't make them more expensive than the standard aircraft.

    What that article does though is provide ample (further) evidence that standards at the Telegraph are pretty abysmal. Just a few errors:

    • "Britain’s Apache gunships have been in use since 2001"
    • "said Col Cash, the commanding officer of 16 Air Assault Brigade."

    • Like Like x 3
  7. OK can someone please explain how a bespoke version of an aircraft from a production line set up to produce just 59 aircraft can NOT be considerably more expensive than purchasing a 'vanilla' version from a production line which has produced over 1000?
  8. I know very little of procurement, but I believe that when the Phantom was bought, using Spey engines was a good idea, higher performance, home built jets, local jobs, but by the time the fuselage had been modified, and extra steel incorporated into the air frame to cope with higher jet temperatures, we were back where we started from performance wise and had added cost to no great advantage to ourselves. That was in a model magazine, so was/is likely to be more accurate, as the model world is full of anoraks.

    I can't see that the Apache story would be much different. Nimrod worked out well as against the Boeing AWACS didn't it?

    Could we not buy up some pre-owned Hinds? At least the locals could indulge in some lamp swinging nostalgia with their young folk.
    • Like Like x 2
  9. rampant

    rampant LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

  10. Didn't we make ours navalised so they could operate on HMS Ocean et al?
  11. Quite. They'd still have been three times as much even if they'd been stock airframes with nothing added. The MoDPE could pay Saville Row prices at ******* Primark!
    • Like Like x 1

  12. UK apaches, better engines, better DASS and some other bespoke mods compared with basic US Army ones.
    Could have been done on the line by Boeing, but Wastelands must be kept in the game no matter the cost.
  13. Would that be the triumph of quality over quantity then? Not winding you up, but surely three or so 'vanilla' aircraft are going to present a slightly bigger footprint than one all singing, all dancing, helicopter? Going on the prices of £35,000,000, as opposed to $18,000,000. Even allowing for the exchange rate, that's an awful lot to pay for an improved capability, isn't it?