Apache AAM

Apaches other than ours can be fitted with a twin Stinger mount on the wingtips.
We've fired countermeasure stuff there. The new AH-64's we're buying should address that.
FWIW, Hellfire has an anti air capability against non supersonic flying things

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Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
The MI-24 ( Hind) is not teh Evil Empire thwocka the air-to-air requirement was indeed trialled to guard against back in the early 90's.


Allied thwockas fluttering around battlefields are judged to be somewhat more at risk from this beastie:
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Mattb

LE
Apaches other than ours can be fitted with a twin Stinger mount on the wingtips.
We've fired countermeasure stuff there. The new AH-64's we're buying should address that.
FWIW, Hellfire has an anti air capability against non supersonic flying things

View attachment 408431
Amazingly, I can also use Google.

What I'm looking for is an answer from someone who is actually in a position to provide first-hand information.
 
What I'm looking for is an answer from someone who is actually in a position to provide first-hand information.
Did you miss my post above you're post?
 
Amazingly, I can also use Google.

What I'm looking for is an answer from someone who is actually in a position to provide first-hand information.
Which you're bound to get on an anonymous website with only the vaguest of connections to the British Army.
 

Mattb

LE
Which you're bound to get on an anonymous website with only the vaguest of connections to the British Army.
Granted, but the choice was here or Mumsnet and I reckon I have a good 20% higher chance of finding someone from the AAC on here.

I could try DGW, but I’m not really sure how to post such a question as to place it somewhere where the sky-gods might see it, or indeed confident that they’d even peruse such a place.
 
Granted, but the choice was here or Mumsnet and I reckon I have a good 20% higher chance of finding someone from the AAC on here.

I could try DGW, but I’m not really sure how to post such a question as to place it somewhere where the sky-gods might see it, or indeed confident that they’d even peruse such a place.
How important is the answer to you, personally? THB, Mumsnet would be a better bet; the Corps cohort here are of a generation that TQ'd on Scout or Lynx AH1
 
Apaches other than ours can be fitted with a twin Stinger mount on the wingtips.
We've fired countermeasure stuff there. The new AH-64's we're buying should address that.
That would be our defensive aide suite which proved in action far superior to the US fit-out and immensely more useful than air to air missiles in the period our version has been in service.
 
Amazingly, I can also use Google.

What I'm looking for is an answer from someone who is actually in a position to provide first-hand information.

It’s an error on the website.
Our Apaches cant be fitted with the launch rails, there’s countermeasures stuff bolted to the end of the wing.
 
That would be our defensive aide suite which proved in action far superior to the US fit-out and immensely more useful than air to air missiles in the period our version has been in service.
Thats the badger.

A2A threat - zero
Beardy chaps firing MANPAD things at you - lots.
 
It’s an error on the website.
Our Apaches cant be fitted with the launch rails, there’s countermeasures stuff bolted to the end of the wing.
If the countermeasures are bolted on, that suggests that you could unbolt them and fit other systems, should you so desire, though that would compromise your DAS.
 
[DRIFT]

Published by: Gordon Arthur in Christchurch, for SHEPHARD MEDIA, on 01 May 2020.

US attack helicopters for Manila – will it or won’t it?

The Philippine Air Force’s (PAF's) desire to obtain new dedicated attack helicopters lurched forward on 30 April, when the US State Department announced a potential FMS of either Bell AH-1Z Viper or Boeing AH-64E Apache aircraft.


According to the State Department: ‘The Philippines is considering either the AH-64E or the AH-1Z to modernise its attack helicopter capabilities.’

For a long time, the Turkish Aerospace T129 Atak helicopter has been the preferred choice for the PAF.
Unfortunately for Manila, however, the sale of Turkish helicopters could quickly snarl to a halt due to political red tape, since there are fears the US could apply Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) strictures on Ankara. This is because Turkey bought S-400 air defence systems from Russia.

The T129 relies on LHTEC CTS800-4A engines from Rolls-Royce and Honeywell, for instance, sales of which could run afoul of the US government. Despite the Turkish government assuring Manila that there will be no issues in obtaining US export licences, proceeding with the T129 would come with huge attendant risks for the Philippines.
This has caused the PAF to re-evaluate its preference and keep its options open by approaching the US. Certainly, the fact that Manila formally requested potential FMS deals for the Bell and Boeing types shows it is serious about an alternative.

The quantity of US aircraft in both the above proprosals is identical (six) but the difference in price is marked. The Apache acquisition would come in at $1.5 billion, and the Vipers at $450 million.

Part of this disparity relates to ancillary equipment but, nonetheless, the Apaches appear substantially more expensive.

According to the US government, the possible Apache sale would include a range of extras, such as: six spare engines; 200 Hellfire missiles; 300 APKWS kits plus 1,700 rockets; one AN/APG-78 Longbow radar for each helicopter; 200 FIM-92H Stinger missiles; eight MUMTI-2i kits; 5,000 2.75in rockets; and 80,000 rounds of 30mm ammunition.

The Viper sale, meanwhile, would include two spare engines; six Hellfire missiles; 26 APKWS rounds; and 5,000 20mm ammunition rounds. As can be seen, considerably fewer extras are listed for the Bell sale.

It is understood that Bell has also offered the PAF second-hand AH-1W SuperCobra helicopters. This could constitute a more cost-effective way of obtaining more airframes, as the USMC divests itself of this older type. Furthermore, the AH-1W would have more in common with the two AH-1S helicopters that the PAF received from Jordan on 26 November 2019.

There is probably a sense of urgency in the PAF to award a contract for this long-running programme, before funds are diverted to COVID-19 relief.

Relations between President Rodrigo Duterte and Washington are poor too, with the Philippine firebrand leader notifying Washington on 11 February 2020 that he was going to terminate the Visiting Forces Agreement that allows US troops to train in the country.

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[/DRIFT]
 
Published by: Tim Martin in London, for SHEPHARD MEDIA, on 14 May 2020.

First UK AH-64E Apache to arrive six months late.

The first of 50 UK-remanufactured AH-64E V6 Apache Guardian attack helicopters will arrive six months later than expected, Shephard has learned.


'A change in the development' of the aircraft has led to the delivery being delayed to 'the end of this year,' according to the UK MoD, following an earlier June 2020 target being placed on public record.
Development issues of the AH-64E are known to have troubled the US Army - the service responsible for leading the Echo variant programme and who were previously forced to delay a Full Operational Test and Evaluation (FOT&E) phase by a year.

It remains unclear if the six month delay for the UK is unique to it or whether other international customers are facing a similar fate.

'As a matter of long-standing practice, we don’t disclose our customers’ delivery timelines,' a Boeing company spokesperson explained when asked about the matter.

‘We really respect the wishes of our global customers over sensitivity to timelines, delivery schedules, quantities and the UK is a very special customer to us… [but] I don’t want to go into any details on their programme,’ Terry Jamison, director of vertical lift international sales at Boeing, said during a 12 May virtual media briefing.

‘Sometimes customer desires of what we can and can’t release changes,’ he added however, referring to the UK order.

Jamison also made clear that there had been no international Apache order cancellations because of COVID-19, saying: ‘Deliveries are being maintained.'

The UK is set to become the largest international operator of the AH-64E, with the 50 aircraft on order due to replace its current AH Mk1 fleet.

‘Despite this [delay], and the ongoing challenges of COVID-19, the programme remains on schedule for IOC as planned,' the UK MoD spokesperson added.

Attack Helicopter Command, an aviation unit within the UK’s Joint Helicopter Command, will be responsible for operating the new aircraft which has been designed with a host of component changes compared to the AH MK1, including a different drivetrain, main rotor blades, new engines and more modern onboard engineering diagnostics.

The AH-64E V6 modernisation programme, led by the US Army, was introduced mainly to better support multi-domain operations and increase lethality. Among its characteristics are a 16km-range Longbow Fire Control Radar and a new maritime targeting capability.

Two UK-specific aircraft modifications are also to be introduced — a windscreen wash system to minimise the effect of sea spray and an individual defensive aids system (an evolution of the one used with the AH Mk1 fleet). The latter is to be manufactured by Leonardo under a contract first agreed with the MoD in April 2018.

Guardian sensor equipment will include the SG200-D radar warning receiver and a variety of systems found on the older UK AH Mk1 fleet, such as BAE Systems’ AN/AAR-57 missile approach warning system, Leonardo’s S1223 laser warning receiver and the Thales Vicon countermeasure dispensing system.

Elsewhere, Jamison appeared to rule out Boeing offering a fully marinised AH-64 variant to Australia as part of the country’s competition to replace the Tiger ARH, because of a current set of naval based capabilities already available on the helicopter.

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Teaching assistants. My sister does 80% of a teacher job for 55% of the money (changes every time she talks about it but presumably not far off).
Really? Does she take 100 books home every night for marking? Parent’s evenings? Report writing? Can she fly an Apache?
 
Does the AH1 fill a capability gap of the AH64? Or is it just cheaper?
 
Does the AH1 fill a capability gap of the AH64? Or is it just cheaper?
AIUI, the original 1990s assumption was that the UK would be buying 100 WAH-64 in a mix of two or three AH-64C for every (somewhat more expensive) radar-equipped AH-64D.

Then DERA started running operational effectiveness studies and simulations, and came to the conclusion that a purely AH-64D fleet offered more "bang for the buck", so we bought 67 of the more expensive radar-equipped AH-64D instead (and put bigger engines and a credible DASS into them; the theory being that sharing the RTM322 engine with the Merlin helicopter was a Good Thing).

That would suggest that the Longbow radar (big doughnut on top of the rotor head) provides a significant advantage...
 
Shooting the other way, some Mi-24 in East Germany were armed with R-60 ( APHID ) AAMs to go hunting NATO attack helos*... Considerably more range and wallop than Stingers.

* Or for engaging eastbound Cessnas
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
I (very) vaguely recall that way back in the concept stage it was expected to be sharing a battlefield with Mi-24's and the idea was that it be armed to defeat that
Yup, me too. The AA capability was to give a level of defensive capability should they come across enemy Heles or Fast Jets
 

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