Anyone see bowling for columbine last night?

#1
It was on 4 last night about 11pm

Quite an interesting film, but once again ruined by the blatant left wing propoganda of Moore and his Ilk. He willfully set out to make the everyday americans appear stupid and insular (that is debatable! :twisted: ), but the worst thing was his blatant editing of what people were saying. He only used what he wanted to in order to back up his point, without then allwoing the people to explain what they meant.

It dealt with some really tricky issues though, such as gun cultrue, the NRA, the alleged victimisation of young Black men etc but left me wondering what he didnt included (like the actual figures on how many crimes are commited by young black males in relation to their proportion of the general population).

Your thoughts

A_S
 
#2
From what I could make of it he was trying connect what the boys did, with the bombing going on in Kosovo. :?

SK
 
#3
Read Michael Moore is a stupid white man, excellent,

Moore recieves award nominations for what is basically propaganda
 
#4
Interesting comparison between the US and Canada though. It often seems that guns are most American's first resort rather than last.
 
#5
Vonshot, I read that book a few years ago before i realised what a twat moore could be. You are right though, the book is does make for interesting reading (albeit with a pinch of salt! :twisted: )

A_S
 
F

fozzy

Guest
#6
Agent_Smith said:
It was on 4 last night about 11pm

Quite an interesting film, but once again ruined by the blatant left wing propoganda of Moore and his Ilk. He willfully set out to make the everyday americans appear stupid and insular (that is debatable! :twisted: ), but the worst thing was his blatant editing of what people were saying. He only used what he wanted to in order to back up his point, without then allwoing the people to explain what they meant.

Your thoughts

A_S
Selective editing is always the way with this sort of thing regardless of where you sit on the political spectrum.
My conclusion of the film was that the 24/7 rolling news culture - especially of crime and the perception of crime is slowly turning us all paranoid.
Once you filter out some of Moore's hyperbole and retoric there is a message worth listening to.

Just look at how sky news and BBC News 24 hype every story regardless of importance. The coverage of Telic 1 was a case in point - every firefight was a "strategic battle", every skirmish a "setback" etc. Unforunately like the newspapers, the "truth" is unimportant and usually far more complex than what will fit into carefully edited sound bites :cry:
 
#7
upset lots of spams.
I think is basic argument is a lot of americans are very fearful and seem to think more and bigger guns are the answer(':roll:').
where as canada has nearly as many guns and less problems with them.
maybe its there all or nothing society either get rich and have a nice life or live on the edge of poverty
(':roll:')
 
#8
Moore just isn't taken seriously anymore. He started out as a fairly reasonable social commentator but has become progressively more marginalised with each subsequent leftist diatribe. Everyone of his 'works' his been found to be nothing more than a mishmash of misrepresentation, misquotes and outright lies. Luckily there is a whole industry out there now that counters his bullsh!t to good effect.

The man's hypocrisy is breathtaking. As someone said recently, how can a man who weighs 400lb lecture us on overconsumption? 8O
 
#9
Right, let's get this out of the way:

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

scroll down for the dissection of Bowling

And now some nice statistics:

Intl. crime victimisation study (Leiden University):

Percentage victim once or more in 1999:

England & Wales - Overall - 26%, contact crime - 3.6%, burglary (incl. attempts): 5.2%
USA - Overall - 21%, contact crome - 1.9%, burglary (incl. attempts) - 3.8%
(contact crime = robbery, assaults with force & sexual assaults against women)

Some other stuff:

A recent study reported in The Washington Times conclusively demonstrates that CCW permit holders are both numerous and overwhelmingly law-abiding. The National Center for Policy Analysis found that only 1 percent of CCW permit holders in the U.S. have ever committed a gun crime. The CCW gun-crime statistics from a number of states completely demolish the gun-banners' argument that there would be a bloodbath after CCW permits were widely issued.

In Florida, for example, 72,000 permits were issued in 2000 alone. Of these, only 241, or less than 1 percent, were revoked.

Indiana has issued 350,000 permits since CCW was legalized in that state. In 2000 only 921 permits were terminated.

There are more than 40,000 permit holders in Utah, yet only five permits have been revoked for murder or attempted murder.

In Texas there are more than 215,000 CCW permit holders. Since 1996 only 178 permits have been withdrawn.
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/second_amendment/rk0501/

And as for Moore, he is a total cnut.
 
#10
I know this may rub some up the wrong way but i feel it must be answered:

Moore went on about the fact that white americans are SO afraid of the young blackmen in America, and that the media are responsible for whipping up a frenzy about young black men being the cause of the vast majority of crimes (and in some cases this may be true, as the media do like to stoke the fire!).

What i want to know is if the amount of media attention based on crimes commited by young black males is proportional to the actual number of crimes they commit? Are they misrepresenting the stats or are young black men just more likely to commit crime? And yes, i realised that there is a correlation between poverty/deprivation and crime, and also between race and poverty, but does this explain or excuse the high incidence of crime commited by young black males?

Any views welcome.

A_S
 
#11
http://www.socialistaction.org/news/199904/prison.html

In 1950, whites represented 65 percent of the prison population, while Blacks represented 35 percent. Today, the opposite is true, with whites composing 35 percent of those imprisoned and Blacks, who are just over 13 percent of the general population, accounting for nearly 65 percent of those in prison.
Of course, to the site I got that from this is evidence of the oppression of blacks and the focussing of the state oppressive organs against them (look at the URL), whereas perhaps it could be due to the huge rise in black drugs gang related activity since 1950?

Look at the raw statistics & draw your own conclusions...
 
#12
After looking for some stats, there seems to be some conflict in opinion with obvious political views playing some role in skewing the facts.

An article writen by a Washingotn times journo:

Although Americans most often think of "hate crimes" as acts by whites against racial minorities -- such as last year's killing of James Byrd in Texas by three white ex-convicts -- the majority of violent crime across racial lines are committed by blacks against whites, the study finds.

Black-on-white crimes were almost nine times as frequent as white-on-black crimes, the study reports. "Hate crimes are thought to be the most serious acts of interracial crime . . . but it is likely that the millions of ordinary interracial crimes -- 90 percent of which are committed by blacks against whites -- are more damaging to race relations," the study concludes.
http://home.att.net/~r.s.mccain/hatecrimes.html

The assertion that blacks are the biggest factor in the crime rate of the United States is bogus. Regardless of the percentage of the population that blacks occupy, the news media and propagandist groups constantly show blacks as the major perpetrators of crime.

Number of Inmates in State and Federal Correctional facilities year-ending 1994
Whites Blacks Other
Number of Inmates 363,918 488,222 171,432
Percentage of Population 35% 48% 17%
Data taken from Bureau of Justice Statistics, American Immigration Lawyers Association, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
http://www.geocities.com/onemansmind/rb/Crime.html
 
#13
Bladensburg said:
Interesting comparison between the US and Canada though. It often seems that guns are most American's first resort rather than last.
That's exactly what Moore wanted you to think.
 
#14
I realise that, however just a brief visit to mil.com or five minutes of GWB would seem to confirm the impression. Obviously, Moore exagerates shamelessly despite this it really does seem that to Americans lethal force is not the last resort. I am not sure that the young black male is not partially responsible for his own problems, particularly when you see what his culture glories in, but, I do wonder whether there is a Chicken-and-Egg situation there, people will often live down to expectations.


The interesting thing about Stupid White Men is GWB's choice of cabinet, it looks as if he deliberately gave portfolios to people in areas to which they were implicitly opposed thus an "anti-environmentalist" gets the job of reducing pollution :roll: .
 
#15
B'Burg,

Some value in what you said ref. GWB cabinet, but the opposite view is that what he didn't do is fill the cabinet with reactionary environmentalist who quite happily leave reality and talk about the destruction of the world in 10 years time (just like they did in the 1960', 70's and 80's - hmmm, still here and so are all the forests and fish in the sea).

Further, what is NEVER mentioned about Shrub's cabinet is that he placed in his cabinet the first Black Sec of State, the first woman (and black) NSA and the now the first black woman Sec of State. There are also a number of Hispanic high profiled cabinet members and nominees for Supreme Court.

All this from a racist apparently!
 
#16
Firstly I must apologise for the awful grammar and sentence construction in my last post. :oops:

Secondly I've never seen Bush as particularly racist or even fundamentalist in terms of religion. What he is is "moneyist", if you've got money or are means of making money he's interested, if you haven't any money or potential monetary value he doesn't give a toss. The same applies to the environment he and his friends don't care what they mess up as long as it pays well and they don't have to live with it themselves.
 
#17
Plastic Yank said:
B'Burg,

Some value in what you said ref. GWB cabinet, but the opposite view is that what he didn't do is fill the cabinet with reactionary environmentalist who quite happily leave reality and talk about the destruction of the world in 10 years time (just like they did in the 1960', 70's and 80's - hmmm, still here and so are all the forests and fish in the sea).

Further, what is NEVER mentioned about Shrub's cabinet is that he placed in his cabinet the first Black Sec of State, the first woman (and black) NSA and the now the first black woman Sec of State. There are also a number of Hispanic high profiled cabinet members and nominees for Supreme Court.

All this from a racist apparently!
Same with GBsr cabinet, and other senior appointments wrt Women and non-white males.

Completely ignored is the reported fact that Clinton's cabinet was comprised of more wealthy and millionaires than any cabinet in history to that point.

They made a big deal of clinton's appointments of Blacks and women, however GBsr I think beat him on that accord.
 
#18
Watched Michael Moore's film with interest. Agreed he may have his own agenda but he did have some very valid arguments.

Bottom line to me seems to be that any culture that has firearms so freely available that a SIX year old can pick one up and take it to school certainly needs to re-evaluate its priorities!
 
#19
Soldier_Why said:
Watched Michael Moore's film with interest. Agreed he may have his own agenda but he did have some very valid arguments.

Bottom line to me seems to be that any culture that has firearms so freely available that a SIX year old can pick one up and take it to school certainly needs to re-evaluate its priorities!
Firearms are even more freely available in Switzerland than in the US - they don't have these problems - it is surprisingly difficult to buy a gun legally in the US. For example, it is easier for a US citizen to buy a gun legally in Canada than for a Canadian citizen to buy one legally in the US.

Many examples of kids finding guns actually occur in situations where their parents are addicts and they find the guns in the drugs dens, not in the houses of law abiding citizens, despite what Moore wants you to think.

The problem that the US has is that illegal firearms are so readily available, and no licencing system in the world, or indeed total prohibition, could undo that.
 
#20
Yes, but where do all these illegal firearms come from? Someone must make them or import them and then sell them on. How many of the guns used in US crime are manufactured there and then - even if exported - make it back into the hands of criminals?
 

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