Anyone remember Tiananmen?

LAZY JOURNALISM
What happened in Beijing on June 4, 1989 is too important to mess up with half-truths and lazy journalism.
.
As a Hong Konger, I strongly believe in the annual remembrance of the dead on the anniversary, but we are probably all aware that there have always been two starkly different versions of the story of what happened in the early hours of that day.
.
In the Western version of events, the students were gunned down in a hail of machine gun fire (Wen Wei Po) leaving “tens of thousands” dead (NBC news).
.
The official Chinese version of events (when they can be pushed to speak about it) says student protests triggered civil unrest in Beijing and elsewhere. Fighting broke out in the city and several hundred people did lose their lives, but no one died in Tiananmen Square.
.
MOVING TOGETHER
Good news: For those of us who still read books and papers, we can see that today, 30 years later, the two versions have been moving steadily together, thanks to the work of writers and reporters who set their prejudices aside to review and compare eyewitness accounts.
.
It is this writer’s hope that an issue that has divided east and west will one day be a shared story of lost people who can be commemorated by both sides.
.
10 THINGS TO TALK THOUGHTFULLY ABOUT
.
People who have studied what actually did happen have a more nuanced understanding of the events of that tragic night. Here are 10 suggestions about things to think about when talking about it.
.
1) DON'T SAY that the student demonstrations were a call for freedom.
.
You see that written everywhere, but scholars agree that the students were complaining about the widespread corruption that they saw as preventing the achievement of what they wanted: a fair and just communist society. The students were fiercely patriotic and proud of China and its socialist stance. They wanted their protest to echo a historical event – the 1919 May 4 student protests against imperialism.
.
2) DON’T SAY that the protests were a call for democracy.
.
In truth, they were calling for reform within communism. It was only when students noticed that international reporters would race to photograph placards with English words such as “liberty” that democracy was elevated to a major theme. Work began on the “goddess of democracy” statue on May 27, just days before the end of the six-week protest. The sculptors modelled it on the work of Russian revolutionary communist sculptor Vera Mukhina.
.
3) DON’T SAY that as armoured vehicles tried to get to the square to clear it on June 4, one brave man stood in front of them, temporarily blocking a line of tanks.
.
The famous “tank man” video was filmed by AP’s Jeff Widener one day later, on June 5, and shows a line of vehicles leaving the square, not entering. These facts do not take anything away from the courage of his act—but it does remove it from the mythology of that night.
.
4) DON’T SAY that soldiers arrived with machine guns and started firing indiscriminately, mowing down hundreds of students.
.
The majority of soldiers who arrived to clear the square were unarmed. The story of “machine gunners” slaughtering students comes from an anonymous article printed in Hong Kong’s Wen Wei Po—an account disavowed by all witnesses. Separately, the student leader who claimed to have seen 200 students mown down was Wu’er Kaixi. He was disgraced after his fellow student protesters jointly confirmed that he had left the square early, many hours before the events he claimed to have personally witnessed.
.
5) DON’T SAY that Tiananmen Square was the site of the massacre.
.
In 2011, Wikileaks revealed classified cables in which US diplomats recorded an interview with a Chilean eyewitness, and noted how it matched Chinese accounts, not Western journalistic ones, which tended to echo the Wen Wei Po and Wu’er Kaixi accounts.
.
The US diplomat said: “He watched the military enter the square and did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops which entered the square were actually armed only with anti-riot gear – truncheons and wooden clubs; they were backed up by armed soldiers.” (Witnesses later said the gunshots heard were from soldiers shooting out the students’ speaker equipment.)
.
A protest leader, Liu Xiaobo, urged the students to depart the square. The witness, a Chilean diplomat, said: “Once agreement was reached for the students to withdraw, linking hands to form a column, the students left the square through the south east corner.” They were gone by 5.45 am.
.
6) DON’T FORGET that the real tragedy took place elsewhere in Beijing.
.
Where did the slaughter take place? The most violent fighting was between workers groups (adults, not students) and soldiers in the West of the city. (About two weeks earlier, Ni Zhifu, chairman of China's labour unions, had threatened to “cripple” China with a general workers’ strike.)
.
Most of the photographs and footage of dead bodies and crushed bicycles were taken from a massive and bloody fight that took place in an area called Mixudi, several kilometers away from Tiananmen Square.
.
In 2009, James Miles, who was the BBC correspondent in Beijing at the time, admitted that he had "conveyed the wrong impression” and that “there was no massacre on Tiananmen Square. Protesters who were still in the square when the army reached it were allowed to leave after negotiations with martial law troops… There was no Tiananmen Square massacre, but there was a Beijing massacre.”
.
7) DON’T MAKE the soldiers into the sole villains.
.
Yes, soldiers slaughtered unarmed people. “And to find out why the soldiers did such an atrocious thing we do not have to look much beyond those widely publicized photos of military buses in rows being set on fire by those protesting crowds,” wrote Australian diplomat Gregory Clark.
.
“To date the world seems to have assumed that those buses were fired by the crowds AFTER the soldiers had started shooting. In fact it was the reverse —the crowds attacked the buses as they entered Beijing, incinerating dozens of soldiers inside, and only then did the shooting begin. Here too we do need not go far to find the evidence — in the not publicized photos of soldiers with horrible burns seeking shelter in nearby houses, and reports of charred corpses being strung from overpasses.”
.
1f60e.png
DON’T SAY that the number of people who lost their lives in Beijing that night was “tens of thousands”.
.
The “tens of thousands” quote came from Tim Russert, NBC’s Washington bureau chief, in a television interview. No respected source on either side of the discussion agrees with this figure. It was 100s or maybe a couple of thousand at most—still too many people, but a far cry from tens of thousands.
.
9) DON’T SAY that anyone who doesn’t uncritically accept the Western popular media version of the event is doing something evil. The truth is important—for the sake of the many dead on all sides.
.
“A few people may have been killed by random shooting on streets near the square, but all verified eyewitness accounts say that the students who remained in the square when troops arrived were allowed to leave peacefully,” said Jay Mathews, former Beijing bureau chief for the Washington Post, and a critic of Western journalistic coverage.
.
“Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances,” he said.
.
10) DO REMEMBER all the victims.
.
UK Journalist Brendan O’Neill explained why we need to remember all three groups of victims: the students, the soldiers, and the main victims: the workers.
.
“Where Chinese officials have reduced the brave uprising in Beijing to a mere ‘incident’, western observers have mythologised it as a peaceful student protest in a central square that was cut down by gun-wielding soldiers.
.
“They have subtly, and unforgivably, written out of history the most numerous protesters of June 1989 and those who suffered the most: the workers in the suburbs of Beijing, miles from Tiananmen Square.”
.
REMEMBER JUNE 4
So let’s remember the tragedy of Beijing on June 4, 1989. But let’s resist the temptation to turn it into a simple, political China-bashing fairy tale in which good guys (the students) were mercilessly slaughtered by bad guys (the soldiers). Instead, let’s recognize it as what it really was: a societal convulsion in which many people sadly lost their lives: students, workers and soldiers. I will be remembering them on June 4. Feel free to take a moment of silence and join me, wherever you are.
.
.
SOURCES AND FURTHER READING:
.
BOOK: Black Hands of Beijing: Lives of Defiance in China's Democracy Movement, by George Black and Robin Munro
.
The Tiananmen Papers, a set of leaked documents that allegedly cover internal Communist Party meetings and reports.
.
Wikileaks: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Wikileaks-no-bloodshed...
.
ARTICLE by Brendan O’Neill: https://www.theguardian.com/.../aug/08/china.olympics2008
.
BOOK: Jay Mathews: One Billion: A China Chronicle
.
Article: "The Myth of Tiananmen and the Price of a Passive Press". by Jay Mathews
https://archives.cjr.org/behind.../the_myth_of_tiananmen.php
.
Article: Gregory Clark: The truth about tankman
http://www.fccj.or.jp/.../984-the-truth-about-tankman.html
.
Article: Jonathan Fenby: https://www.theguardian.com/.../sep/10/thetiananmensquarepeg
 
7754E9E2-0597-458F-BD4F-F0FD06AC9FA7.jpeg

Brave man, whatever became of him.
 

TamH70

MIA
LAZY JOURNALISM
What happened in Beijing on June 4, 1989 is too important to mess up with half-truths and lazy journalism.
.
As a Hong Konger, I strongly believe in the annual remembrance of the dead on the anniversary, but we are probably all aware that there have always been two starkly different versions of the story of what happened in the early hours of that day.
.
In the Western version of events, the students were gunned down in a hail of machine gun fire (Wen Wei Po) leaving “tens of thousands” dead (NBC news).
.
The official Chinese version of events (when they can be pushed to speak about it) says student protests triggered civil unrest in Beijing and elsewhere. Fighting broke out in the city and several hundred people did lose their lives, but no one died in Tiananmen Square.
.
MOVING TOGETHER
Good news: For those of us who still read books and papers, we can see that today, 30 years later, the two versions have been moving steadily together, thanks to the work of writers and reporters who set their prejudices aside to review and compare eyewitness accounts.
.
It is this writer’s hope that an issue that has divided east and west will one day be a shared story of lost people who can be commemorated by both sides.
.
10 THINGS TO TALK THOUGHTFULLY ABOUT
.
People who have studied what actually did happen have a more nuanced understanding of the events of that tragic night. Here are 10 suggestions about things to think about when talking about it.
.
1) DON'T SAY that the student demonstrations were a call for freedom.
.
You see that written everywhere, but scholars agree that the students were complaining about the widespread corruption that they saw as preventing the achievement of what they wanted: a fair and just communist society. The students were fiercely patriotic and proud of China and its socialist stance. They wanted their protest to echo a historical event – the 1919 May 4 student protests against imperialism.
.
2) DON’T SAY that the protests were a call for democracy.
.
In truth, they were calling for reform within communism. It was only when students noticed that international reporters would race to photograph placards with English words such as “liberty” that democracy was elevated to a major theme. Work began on the “goddess of democracy” statue on May 27, just days before the end of the six-week protest. The sculptors modelled it on the work of Russian revolutionary communist sculptor Vera Mukhina.
.
3) DON’T SAY that as armoured vehicles tried to get to the square to clear it on June 4, one brave man stood in front of them, temporarily blocking a line of tanks.
.
The famous “tank man” video was filmed by AP’s Jeff Widener one day later, on June 5, and shows a line of vehicles leaving the square, not entering. These facts do not take anything away from the courage of his act—but it does remove it from the mythology of that night.
.
4) DON’T SAY that soldiers arrived with machine guns and started firing indiscriminately, mowing down hundreds of students.
.
The majority of soldiers who arrived to clear the square were unarmed. The story of “machine gunners” slaughtering students comes from an anonymous article printed in Hong Kong’s Wen Wei Po—an account disavowed by all witnesses. Separately, the student leader who claimed to have seen 200 students mown down was Wu’er Kaixi. He was disgraced after his fellow student protesters jointly confirmed that he had left the square early, many hours before the events he claimed to have personally witnessed.
.
5) DON’T SAY that Tiananmen Square was the site of the massacre.
.
In 2011, Wikileaks revealed classified cables in which US diplomats recorded an interview with a Chilean eyewitness, and noted how it matched Chinese accounts, not Western journalistic ones, which tended to echo the Wen Wei Po and Wu’er Kaixi accounts.
.
The US diplomat said: “He watched the military enter the square and did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops which entered the square were actually armed only with anti-riot gear – truncheons and wooden clubs; they were backed up by armed soldiers.” (Witnesses later said the gunshots heard were from soldiers shooting out the students’ speaker equipment.)
.
A protest leader, Liu Xiaobo, urged the students to depart the square. The witness, a Chilean diplomat, said: “Once agreement was reached for the students to withdraw, linking hands to form a column, the students left the square through the south east corner.” They were gone by 5.45 am.
.
6) DON’T FORGET that the real tragedy took place elsewhere in Beijing.
.
Where did the slaughter take place? The most violent fighting was between workers groups (adults, not students) and soldiers in the West of the city. (About two weeks earlier, Ni Zhifu, chairman of China's labour unions, had threatened to “cripple” China with a general workers’ strike.)
.
Most of the photographs and footage of dead bodies and crushed bicycles were taken from a massive and bloody fight that took place in an area called Mixudi, several kilometers away from Tiananmen Square.
.
In 2009, James Miles, who was the BBC correspondent in Beijing at the time, admitted that he had "conveyed the wrong impression” and that “there was no massacre on Tiananmen Square. Protesters who were still in the square when the army reached it were allowed to leave after negotiations with martial law troops… There was no Tiananmen Square massacre, but there was a Beijing massacre.”
.
7) DON’T MAKE the soldiers into the sole villains.
.
Yes, soldiers slaughtered unarmed people. “And to find out why the soldiers did such an atrocious thing we do not have to look much beyond those widely publicized photos of military buses in rows being set on fire by those protesting crowds,” wrote Australian diplomat Gregory Clark.
.
“To date the world seems to have assumed that those buses were fired by the crowds AFTER the soldiers had started shooting. In fact it was the reverse —the crowds attacked the buses as they entered Beijing, incinerating dozens of soldiers inside, and only then did the shooting begin. Here too we do need not go far to find the evidence — in the not publicized photos of soldiers with horrible burns seeking shelter in nearby houses, and reports of charred corpses being strung from overpasses.”
.
1f60e.png
DON’T SAY that the number of people who lost their lives in Beijing that night was “tens of thousands”.
.
The “tens of thousands” quote came from Tim Russert, NBC’s Washington bureau chief, in a television interview. No respected source on either side of the discussion agrees with this figure. It was 100s or maybe a couple of thousand at most—still too many people, but a far cry from tens of thousands.
.
9) DON’T SAY that anyone who doesn’t uncritically accept the Western popular media version of the event is doing something evil. The truth is important—for the sake of the many dead on all sides.
.
“A few people may have been killed by random shooting on streets near the square, but all verified eyewitness accounts say that the students who remained in the square when troops arrived were allowed to leave peacefully,” said Jay Mathews, former Beijing bureau chief for the Washington Post, and a critic of Western journalistic coverage.
.
“Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances,” he said.
.
10) DO REMEMBER all the victims.
.
UK Journalist Brendan O’Neill explained why we need to remember all three groups of victims: the students, the soldiers, and the main victims: the workers.
.
“Where Chinese officials have reduced the brave uprising in Beijing to a mere ‘incident’, western observers have mythologised it as a peaceful student protest in a central square that was cut down by gun-wielding soldiers.
.
“They have subtly, and unforgivably, written out of history the most numerous protesters of June 1989 and those who suffered the most: the workers in the suburbs of Beijing, miles from Tiananmen Square.”
.
REMEMBER JUNE 4
So let’s remember the tragedy of Beijing on June 4, 1989. But let’s resist the temptation to turn it into a simple, political China-bashing fairy tale in which good guys (the students) were mercilessly slaughtered by bad guys (the soldiers). Instead, let’s recognize it as what it really was: a societal convulsion in which many people sadly lost their lives: students, workers and soldiers. I will be remembering them on June 4. Feel free to take a moment of silence and join me, wherever you are.
.
.
SOURCES AND FURTHER READING:
.
BOOK: Black Hands of Beijing: Lives of Defiance in China's Democracy Movement, by George Black and Robin Munro
.
The Tiananmen Papers, a set of leaked documents that allegedly cover internal Communist Party meetings and reports.
.
Wikileaks: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Wikileaks-no-bloodshed...
.
ARTICLE by Brendan O’Neill: https://www.theguardian.com/.../aug/08/china.olympics2008
.
BOOK: Jay Mathews: One Billion: A China Chronicle
.
Article: "The Myth of Tiananmen and the Price of a Passive Press". by Jay Mathews
https://archives.cjr.org/behind.../the_myth_of_tiananmen.php
.
Article: Gregory Clark: The truth about tankman
http://www.fccj.or.jp/.../984-the-truth-about-tankman.html
.
Article: Jonathan Fenby: https://www.theguardian.com/.../sep/10/thetiananmensquarepeg

Aye, right. Who wrote that piece of comedy content? And who the hell ordained him or her the right to give me orders? Especially ones backed up by a Grauniad article?
 
View attachment 578913
Brave man, whatever became of him.

Speaking of 'tank man'...

'Microsoft has blamed "accidental human error" for its search engine Bing failing to produce any results for 'Tank Man' on the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square protests.

'Users in the UK, US, Germany and Singapore were met with the message "There are no results for tank man" when they searched for it on Friday - the 32nd anniversary of the demonstrations.

'Microsoft has been accused of censoring the image and co-operating with China, which refers to the suppression as the 'June 4 incident' and bans any discussion of it.

'Although China applies censorship to search engines operating in its jurisdiction, it has no power to ban content beyond its borders.

'A large number of Microsoft employees who work on Bing are located in China.'


 

TamH70

MIA
Speaking of 'tank man'...

'Microsoft has blamed "accidental human error" for its search engine Bing failing to produce any results for 'Tank Man' on the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square protests.

'Users in the UK, US, Germany and Singapore were met with the message "There are no results for tank man" when they searched for it on Friday - the 32nd anniversary of the demonstrations.

'Microsoft has been accused of censoring the image and co-operating with China, which refers to the suppression as the 'June 4 incident' and bans any discussion of it.

'Although China applies censorship to search engines operating in its jurisdiction, it has no power to ban content beyond its borders.

'A large number of Microsoft employees who work on Bing are located in China.'



Accidental?

My arse!
 
One of my colleagues asked our guide at Tiananmen square and she denied it ever happened. We were also advised not to discuss politics with our hosts.

That became a bit difficult when we had dinner and one of them asked me whether I would support China or America in World War Three.

I think there was a BBC documentary on Radio 4 Discovery that covered tank man.
 
Aye, right. Who wrote that piece of comedy content? And who the hell ordained him or her the right to give me orders? Especially ones backed up by a Grauniad article?
Most, if not all, of it is easily corroborated with very little research and as, publicly available diplomatic cables prove, supported even by the governments most hostile to China
 
LAZY JOURNALISM
What happened in Beijing on June 4, 1989 is too important to mess up with half-truths and lazy journalism.
.
As a Hong Konger, I strongly believe in the annual remembrance of the dead on the anniversary, but we are probably all aware that there have always been two starkly different versions of the story of what happened in the early hours of that day.
.
In the Western version of events, the students were gunned down in a hail of machine gun fire (Wen Wei Po) leaving “tens of thousands” dead (NBC news).
.
The official Chinese version of events (when they can be pushed to speak about it) says student protests triggered civil unrest in Beijing and elsewhere. Fighting broke out in the city and several hundred people did lose their lives, but no one died in Tiananmen Square.
.
MOVING TOGETHER
Good news: For those of us who still read books and papers, we can see that today, 30 years later, the two versions have been moving steadily together, thanks to the work of writers and reporters who set their prejudices aside to review and compare eyewitness accounts.
.
It is this writer’s hope that an issue that has divided east and west will one day be a shared story of lost people who can be commemorated by both sides.
.
10 THINGS TO TALK THOUGHTFULLY ABOUT
.
People who have studied what actually did happen have a more nuanced understanding of the events of that tragic night. Here are 10 suggestions about things to think about when talking about it.
.
1) DON'T SAY that the student demonstrations were a call for freedom.
.
You see that written everywhere, but scholars agree that the students were complaining about the widespread corruption that they saw as preventing the achievement of what they wanted: a fair and just communist society. The students were fiercely patriotic and proud of China and its socialist stance. They wanted their protest to echo a historical event – the 1919 May 4 student protests against imperialism.
.
2) DON’T SAY that the protests were a call for democracy.
.
In truth, they were calling for reform within communism. It was only when students noticed that international reporters would race to photograph placards with English words such as “liberty” that democracy was elevated to a major theme. Work began on the “goddess of democracy” statue on May 27, just days before the end of the six-week protest. The sculptors modelled it on the work of Russian revolutionary communist sculptor Vera Mukhina.
.
3) DON’T SAY that as armoured vehicles tried to get to the square to clear it on June 4, one brave man stood in front of them, temporarily blocking a line of tanks.
.
The famous “tank man” video was filmed by AP’s Jeff Widener one day later, on June 5, and shows a line of vehicles leaving the square, not entering. These facts do not take anything away from the courage of his act—but it does remove it from the mythology of that night.
.
4) DON’T SAY that soldiers arrived with machine guns and started firing indiscriminately, mowing down hundreds of students.
.
The majority of soldiers who arrived to clear the square were unarmed. The story of “machine gunners” slaughtering students comes from an anonymous article printed in Hong Kong’s Wen Wei Po—an account disavowed by all witnesses. Separately, the student leader who claimed to have seen 200 students mown down was Wu’er Kaixi. He was disgraced after his fellow student protesters jointly confirmed that he had left the square early, many hours before the events he claimed to have personally witnessed.
.
5) DON’T SAY that Tiananmen Square was the site of the massacre.
.
In 2011, Wikileaks revealed classified cables in which US diplomats recorded an interview with a Chilean eyewitness, and noted how it matched Chinese accounts, not Western journalistic ones, which tended to echo the Wen Wei Po and Wu’er Kaixi accounts.
.
The US diplomat said: “He watched the military enter the square and did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops which entered the square were actually armed only with anti-riot gear – truncheons and wooden clubs; they were backed up by armed soldiers.” (Witnesses later said the gunshots heard were from soldiers shooting out the students’ speaker equipment.)
.
A protest leader, Liu Xiaobo, urged the students to depart the square. The witness, a Chilean diplomat, said: “Once agreement was reached for the students to withdraw, linking hands to form a column, the students left the square through the south east corner.” They were gone by 5.45 am.
.
6) DON’T FORGET that the real tragedy took place elsewhere in Beijing.
.
Where did the slaughter take place? The most violent fighting was between workers groups (adults, not students) and soldiers in the West of the city. (About two weeks earlier, Ni Zhifu, chairman of China's labour unions, had threatened to “cripple” China with a general workers’ strike.)
.
Most of the photographs and footage of dead bodies and crushed bicycles were taken from a massive and bloody fight that took place in an area called Mixudi, several kilometers away from Tiananmen Square.
.
In 2009, James Miles, who was the BBC correspondent in Beijing at the time, admitted that he had "conveyed the wrong impression” and that “there was no massacre on Tiananmen Square. Protesters who were still in the square when the army reached it were allowed to leave after negotiations with martial law troops… There was no Tiananmen Square massacre, but there was a Beijing massacre.”
.
7) DON’T MAKE the soldiers into the sole villains.
.
Yes, soldiers slaughtered unarmed people. “And to find out why the soldiers did such an atrocious thing we do not have to look much beyond those widely publicized photos of military buses in rows being set on fire by those protesting crowds,” wrote Australian diplomat Gregory Clark.
.
“To date the world seems to have assumed that those buses were fired by the crowds AFTER the soldiers had started shooting. In fact it was the reverse —the crowds attacked the buses as they entered Beijing, incinerating dozens of soldiers inside, and only then did the shooting begin. Here too we do need not go far to find the evidence — in the not publicized photos of soldiers with horrible burns seeking shelter in nearby houses, and reports of charred corpses being strung from overpasses.”
.
1f60e.png
DON’T SAY that the number of people who lost their lives in Beijing that night was “tens of thousands”.
.
The “tens of thousands” quote came from Tim Russert, NBC’s Washington bureau chief, in a television interview. No respected source on either side of the discussion agrees with this figure. It was 100s or maybe a couple of thousand at most—still too many people, but a far cry from tens of thousands.
.
9) DON’T SAY that anyone who doesn’t uncritically accept the Western popular media version of the event is doing something evil. The truth is important—for the sake of the many dead on all sides.
.
“A few people may have been killed by random shooting on streets near the square, but all verified eyewitness accounts say that the students who remained in the square when troops arrived were allowed to leave peacefully,” said Jay Mathews, former Beijing bureau chief for the Washington Post, and a critic of Western journalistic coverage.
.
“Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances,” he said.
.
10) DO REMEMBER all the victims.
.
UK Journalist Brendan O’Neill explained why we need to remember all three groups of victims: the students, the soldiers, and the main victims: the workers.
.
“Where Chinese officials have reduced the brave uprising in Beijing to a mere ‘incident’, western observers have mythologised it as a peaceful student protest in a central square that was cut down by gun-wielding soldiers.
.
“They have subtly, and unforgivably, written out of history the most numerous protesters of June 1989 and those who suffered the most: the workers in the suburbs of Beijing, miles from Tiananmen Square.”
.
REMEMBER JUNE 4
So let’s remember the tragedy of Beijing on June 4, 1989. But let’s resist the temptation to turn it into a simple, political China-bashing fairy tale in which good guys (the students) were mercilessly slaughtered by bad guys (the soldiers). Instead, let’s recognize it as what it really was: a societal convulsion in which many people sadly lost their lives: students, workers and soldiers. I will be remembering them on June 4. Feel free to take a moment of silence and join me, wherever you are.
.
.
SOURCES AND FURTHER READING:
.
BOOK: Black Hands of Beijing: Lives of Defiance in China's Democracy Movement, by George Black and Robin Munro
.
The Tiananmen Papers, a set of leaked documents that allegedly cover internal Communist Party meetings and reports.
.
Wikileaks: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Wikileaks-no-bloodshed...
.
ARTICLE by Brendan O’Neill: https://www.theguardian.com/.../aug/08/china.olympics2008
.
BOOK: Jay Mathews: One Billion: A China Chronicle
.
Article: "The Myth of Tiananmen and the Price of a Passive Press". by Jay Mathews
https://archives.cjr.org/behind.../the_myth_of_tiananmen.php
.
Article: Gregory Clark: The truth about tankman
http://www.fccj.or.jp/.../984-the-truth-about-tankman.html
.
Article: Jonathan Fenby: https://www.theguardian.com/.../sep/10/thetiananmensquarepeg


I thought this was bs but it seems fairly well researched.

 

TamH70

MIA
I thought this was bs but it seems fairly well researched.


Do you have any sources that aren't Left-Wing-leaning moonhowlers? The jargon used about themselves on their about us, we're so special page could be found on Momentum. Or indeed the Grauniad.

The massacre didn't seem too much of a hoax when I watched it live on the BBC News at the time.
 
Do you have any sources that aren't Left-Wing-leaning moonhowlers? The jargon used about themselves on their about us, we're so special page could be found on Momentum. Or indeed the Grauniad.

The massacre didn't seem too much of a hoax when I watched it live on the BBC News at the time.

If you read the link it cites a variety of sources, including the BBC. It's not suggesting that a massacre didn't happen, only that the Western perception is wrong and more soldiers were killed than students.
 
And that is the point. Hundreds, possibly more people died, including soldiers whose buses were set on fire.

The protests were mostly trade union led and most of the violence happened in other parts of the city.

The students were demanding reforms to the communist government, not for removal of the government nor democracy.

Tank man stood in front of the tanks as they were leaving Tiananmen square. They switched off their engines and he even climbed up for a chat with the occupants before being taken away by friends / onlookers.

None of this is even in dispute
 

TamH70

MIA
And that is the point. Hundreds, possibly more people died, including soldiers whose buses were set on fire.

The protests were mostly trade union led and most of the violence happened in other parts of the city.

The students were demanding reforms to the communist government, not for removal of the government nor democracy.

Tank man stood in front of the tanks as they were leaving Tiananmen square. They switched off their engines and he even climbed up for a chat with the occupants before being taken away by friends / onlookers.

None of this is even in dispute

O RLY?

So where is Tank Man then?

And how many Renminbi did his family get billed for the cost of the bullet used to re-edumacate him via Halsschuss?
 
I brought on a well known auction site a second hand folding push bike from China after this incident.

I was conned!!!!

It was a full sized bike folded in half and had tank tracks marks on the frame.

The Auction Site would not refund me as the bike was as described i.e. 'FOLDED', no mention in the advert about being able to open the push bike.

I boycotted my local Chinese Takeaway there after.
 
My wife remembers the Tienanmen Square incident. She was there. Apparently it was quite frightening.
 
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Chef

LE
Again, apologies for using Wiki, but really, just get over it.

What's to get over? It was just an observation.

One day 'Peking' is the name used for the Chinese capital then the fashion changed and it's 'Beijing'. Seemed to happen roundabout that time.
 
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