Anyone recognise this regiment?

#1
I'm trying to help my mum out with some family research and she has this photo of her grandfather in WW2 (he's the handsome chap on the left!). Does anyone recognise the uniform? I'm at a loss as there are no collar emblems or other distinguishing features. His beret is on his lap, with what may be a hackle - fusiliers?
Also quite likely to be Home Guard of some sort given his age and that he (Albert Hall - yes I know!) was in WW1 as a Cpl where he was awarded a DSO. He then worked at the War Graves Commission on attachment and allegedly died when a london office was bombed. War Graves have no records of this though.

Any help much appreciated!
 

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#3
Chief489 said:
Also quite likely to be Home Guard of some sort given his age and that he (Albert Hall - yes I know!) was in WW1 as a Cpl where he was awarded a DSO. He then worked at the War Graves Commission on attachment and allegedly died when a london office was bombed. War Graves have no records of this though.
Sorry to be a damp squib but ...

These people are all wearing WW1 & WW2 medal ribbons. Unfortunately, your great-grandfather doesn't appear to be wearing his DSO ribbon (his senior ribbon looks identical to that for the other 2 guys) - DSO ribbon:



I would also note that it would be extremely unusual for a Cpl to be awarded the DSO - prior to the Major government reforms in the 90s, this was an officer-only award (there may have been some exceptions but ...)

Edited to add: Now, if it's their left not ours, then the gent looks to be wearing the ribbon of the Military Medal (2nd in):

 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#4
Beret looks either to be a cap GS or ToS. Was he a Sweaty? The bloke on the right looks like he was on the telly!
 
#5
Idrach - wouldn't be surprised if the old b**ger is at a fancy dress party! Have to say that the DSO has been researched and it appears genuine. Citation is for supplying the front line under heavy artillery bombardment. I'll try to get the text and post it here. What exactly are the other ribbons in the picture?

Ugly - thought it may be a ToS too. Will get a bit more info!

Thanks to both.

Edited to add - apparently all three in the photo are called Albert Hall and are celebrating the fact they've all been given DSOs (took a while!), hence no ribbon. He was a Transport Sgt at the time of the act for citation. Will investigate further about the OR/NCO DSO bit.
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#6
What did he serve in during WW1? There are 491 Albert Hall medal cards for WW1!!

It could be he was awarded the DCM.

Edit to put correct medal
 
#7
Can't make out what the senior medal is for any of the guys. But, my best guesses ...

Great Grandfather: ???; 1914-15 Star; British War Medal ; Victory Medal.

Sgt "Dental Disaster": can't make these out very well but - Same ???; might be a BEM; Something else (this would make sense - he is wearing collar dogs so might be the pre-war reg training sgt?) And his ribbons are too tall.

Man on right: Same ???; Military Medal, then the same as your great-grandfather.

If you have his full name, you can get the London Gazette entry for free at http://www.london-gazette.co.uk and you can get a scan of the actual medal card (I have my great-grandfathers - he had the standard 3) from the National Archives for £2: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#8
Idrach said:
Can't make out what the senior medal is for any of the guys. But, my best guesses ...

Great Grandfather: ???; 1914-15 Star; British War Medal ; Victory Medal.

Sgt "Dental Disaster": can't make these out very well but - Same ???; might be a BEM; Something else (this would make sense - he is wearing collar dogs so might be the pre-war reg training sgt?) And his ribbons are too tall.

Man on right: Same ???; Military Medal, then the same as your great-grandfather.

If you have his full name, you can get the London Gazette entry for free at http://www.london-gazette.co.uk and you can get a scan of the actual medal card (I have my great-grandfathers - he had the standard 3) from the National Archives for £2: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp
I can get it for free if I have the details :D
 
#9
I'm rubbish at medal recognition but weren't many WW2 Home Guards retreads from WW1? A fair number of these had previously been commissioned, but then rejoined the HG as ORs. Thus an OR with a DSO isn't necessarily impossible.
 
#10
My best guess for the senior ribbon, on that basis, is the Distinguished Conduct Medal:



This isn't awarded any more but would now be the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross (i.e. the step between the Military Cross and the VC).

Effectively, for an NCO, the same award as an officer getting the DSO for bravery as opposed to leadership.

Edited to add - that's me shown for not ready oldbaldy's post properly. Agree entirely. Although he changed it from ?DSM?. And to put the correct modern Level 3 award - MC rather than MM.
 
#11
oldnotbold said:
A fair number of these had previously been commissioned, but then rejoined the HG as ORs. Thus an OR with a DSO isn't necessarily impossible.
But the statement was "received the DSO as a Cpl". IIRC, even subalterns weren't entitled.
 
#12
There's an Albert George Hall, age 49, listed amongst the civilian casualties. Not him, is it?
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#13
Idrach said:
oldnotbold said:
A fair number of these had previously been commissioned, but then rejoined the HG as ORs. Thus an OR with a DSO isn't necessarily impossible.
But the statement was "received the DSO as a Cpl". IIRC, even subalterns weren't entitled.
Which is why I think it more likely to be a DCM.
 
#14
Of course, just for an up-to-date comparison, "DCM MM", so putatively the same as the gent on the right, is also the (in)famous Andy McNab's gallantry medal haul.
 
#15
It's a DCM fest:
L to R
DCM, 14/15 star, BWM, VM
DCM, BWM, VM
DCM, MM, 14/15 star, BWM, VM

DCM medal index cards are archived in WO372/24 and I can't find an Albert Hall with a DCM. If you can provide his full name I'll dig further.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
Not really my part of ship but judging by the shiny buttons the left and centre men are wearing the 'old' service dress for ORs but the one on the right is wearing the battledress brought in 1939? 1940?, and judging by their apparent ages it looks to me as this is three WW1 vets who have come back to the colours at the start of WW2. Therefore, no WW2 medals yet. Sandy's analysis squares with my grandfather's Pip, Squeak and Wilfred - ribbons ahead of them must be galantry medals then. They've certainly earned the dark liquid in the photo.
 
#17
Bit of an update from mother!

It was a DCM and not a DSO. Awarded to 200305 A Hall, 1st/4th Bn Lincolnshire Regt (Territorial Regt).

Mum's after how to find evidence of re-enlistment at WW2. She's checked with the archives and there is confusion about whether he joined back with the Labour Corps. The guy she's dealing with reckons it could be wrong data on his card due to all the Albert Halls knocking about!

So basically, we're after a bit more info about the uniform. Seems that most of you reckon it may be his WW1 kit?

Onetap - it wasn't that guy, mum's checked it out.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
That kit was still being issued for training depots into the 1960's so I wouldnt be surprised that reenlistments were wearing it in 1940!
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#19
I've found his medal card.
Do you have a copy
DCM gazetted 3Jun 1918
 
#20
ugly said:
That kit was still being issued for training depots into the 1960's so I wouldnt be surprised that reenlistments were wearing it in 1940!
As seen on JLR RAC web site
 

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