Anyone need a diving instructor?

Discussion in 'Sports, Adventure Training and Events' started by Burst_Disk, Oct 20, 2006.

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  1. Am available to instruct on all PADI/BSAC courses and photo, NITROX and DPV. Also Emergency First Response Instructor. Would love to help out on an exped or just general diving for clubs. PM me if you need advice or a hand.
  2. Are you a SADS?
  3. Never done any diving, but been pondering it for a while for a slightly un-orthodox reason.
    I would like to dive underground, specifically in dis-used mines, is it feasable?
  4. No, not much point really, it's a turn off - No fun in going diving if you have to sit on the side all day!
  5. Schaden

    Schaden LE Book Reviewer

    Easy way to end up dead.
  6. Whilst I understand Jagman's point I must point out that cave diving is a well covered speciality. Although I am not sure why on earth anyone would want to go and dive in a dis-used mine! Sounds crazy and there is something suspect about your 'un-orthodox resons' bit. As for the question is it feasible - Yes I suppose it is but so is jumping out of a plane at 30k ft without a parachute - the theme being what is the point?
  7. I spend a lot of my free time in dis-used mines and other underground man made spaces, its what I do for fun :D
    Several times now I have been into places where water prevents further progress. Often, more recent mines descend down inclines below geological faults and then rise up again beyond. These low points are frequently flooded, hence the desire to get beyond :D

    Cave diving is reasonably common but I cant find anyone who does it that is willing to try dis-used mines.
    Added complications arise (I think) because a lot of these mines are at 1000feet plus altitude and nobody seems sure how that affects depths when diving etc.
  8. Burst Disk wrote:
    If you don't mind me saying, I think you are shooting yourself in the foot by not getting your SADS ticket. I and every other SADS I know, turndown more expeds each year than we go on (most of them all paid for).
    As long as you have another Advanced Diver on site then you can dive as well. To date there has been only one occasion that I have not dived whilst SADS-ing an exped, and that was self imposed as my medical had expired.

    With the quals that you have got, plus a SADS ticket, you will be beating people off with a stick!
  9. You are probably right but then the whole JSSADA regs are changing and if I remember rightly it may not be necessary (you should check this as I may be wrong) to have a SADS as a PADI DM could fulfil exactly the same role. Other thing and from what I can gather the SADS is just an umbrella for the diving exped - From what I gather they are NOT really allowed to get in the water whilst the dive is on as the role is topside and from what I can tell only there for emergencies. Well I have to say that I would favour emergency services for what it is worth. Afterall what can a SADS really do that an instructor is not qualified to do? And I don't go for the doubling of safety, it is not necessary in clear water for example, I can understand if one is diving in bad vis and all that. In fact please do tell me what a SADS is there for?
  10. Burst Disk,

    Joint Service Sub Aqua Diving Regulations will never allow a PADI DM to substitute for a SADS, the main reasons are:
    1. A PADI DM is the equivalent to a BSAC DL not an AD.
    2. A PADI DM has not been assed on his ability to organise conduct diving in accordance with JSSADR.
    3. A PADI DM is unable to supervise decompression diving in accordance with BSAC 88 tables.

    The SADS is not as much an umbrella as a guarantee to ensure that the diving is conducted safely.

    The actual rules, are that there must always be a SADS present to supervise all diving operations except:
    If a second SADS is unavailable he may be deputised by a BSAC AD.
    Pool sessions.
    Recognised and approved sheltered water sites (of which there was only one – Horsea Island – but may not be any more).
    On an overseas exercise, and with permission, a unit may obtain training from another diving training agency.

    The SADS is directly responsible for the organisation of the dive as well as managing a response to an emergency situation.

    Your comment in relation to preferring the emergency services is a silly one – the SADS has been trained and assessed in managing the correct first aid treatment and obtaining further medical aid as soon as possible – he is the contact to the emergency services not a replacement. For example do you know what a DDMO is or what to do with it?

    I maybe wrong, so I do apologise, but would I be right in thinking that you have never dived with a military club, and have only ever come in contact with a SADS on an overseas exped in which a dive guide was employed?

    One point that should be clarified, is that a SADS is not employed as an instructor. You don’t have to be an instructor to be a SADS – a point that I personally have never agreed with but there you go.

    As a BSAC instructor, you will be fully aware of the role of the Dive Marshall – well think of the role of the SADS as a very tightly regulated Super Dive Marshall. :wink:

    I’m a little worried about you comments on clear water, good visibility has its own dangers mainly ones due to overconfidence and incorrect depth perception.

    I feel that you are condemning something that you do not fully understand, and is hard to do so in this forum. Please, go diving with a military club or book yourself on the Pre SADS course and you will soon learn why we have SADS.

    I’ll even put my money where my mouth is, and promise a couple cases of what ever you prefer, if you get you SADS ticket and do not think it was worth while.
  11. FF

    Your points are well made, thank you. I do understand the role of SADS and I am aware that they may be deputised by an BSAC Advanced Diver. I am aware of the Duty Diving Medical Officer and dive incident reporting too. I concede that where no other instructor exists either in the water or topside cover then there should be someone suitably qualified to run the dive operations - BUT my question is this. Why is it necessary to have a SADS when the diving is being conducted by a qulaified instructor> It seems rediculous that expeditions have fallen down where no SADS could be found or where there has been a reluctance for a SADS to opt to go with an exped because traditionally (and in the absence of an BSAC AD) the SADS must stay topside whilst everyone else has a good time underwater. Is an instructor not capable of doing what the SADS has been trained to do? We know about emergency procedures, how to conduct searches etc....

    I am the DO for my Mil club currently and not SADS, and as I am sure you know I don't have to be according to JSSADR. I don't totally agree with those regulations because they are very restrictive. As for BSAC did you know that none of the other European Dive Regulators allow a crossover from them? CMAS and NAUI won't recognise them because of some of their outmoded practices.

    Given the restrictive nature of service diving regs is it any wonder that a lot of expeds have to resort to outsourcing their instruction to Civvie enterprises to transfer the risk when they fail to fulfill the JSSADR requirement?
  12. Burst Disk,

    It’s nice to meet and exchange with someone who is able to form a logical and educated discussion and doesn’t throw into insults, and the standard, them versus us (PADI v BSAC) arguments, for a change.

    The falling out with CMAS was about BSAC’s business plan as apposed to diving techniques. It was about 10 – 12 years ago when it suggested that an organisation called the British Sub Aqua Club should not really be setting up shop outside the UK. BSAC took great exception to this, arguments broke out and BSAC was no longer recognised by CMAS even though BSAC was one of the founding members of CMAS.

    My quals book is that old it still has the CMAS stars in it!

    Unfortunately it comes down to the fact that the SADS has been formally assessed in all that he does.

    I must admit that there is a great shortage of SADS available for expeds, this year I had to drop out of an exped to Gib at the last minute due to Ops – Bugger!

    Let me know if you are going to the Joint Services conference in December.

    Safe diving.
  13. The great debate still goes on!

    I fully agree with Burst_Disk, being a BSAC and PADI instructor I see no value in a SADS, having ran 8 military expeditions and reported 2 SADS to LAIT, I fully agree.

    This discussion goes on and on, the fundamental issue still remains with SADS. What is the quality control of a SADS; the answer….limited! I have been shocked by the lack of fitness, theoretical knowledge and arrogance displayed by these individuals. I have only met 1 decent SADS in all my time. Now I’m sure Flying Felix will have a text book answer (ASADA, etc) but I can assure you that in practice, quality control of SADS does not work.

    In my final days in uniform I chose not to take a SADS on my last 2 expeditions, this was, and is on the increase. While I realise the technicality of diving at work (having staffed the ‘on & off’ duty status matrix) and the importance of a dive supervisor, the rules are defined by the HSE for best practice. Furthermore a SADS is not a qualification recognised by any of the 14 diving agencies specified by the HSE.

    While I like Flying Felix and Burst_Disk all want safe diving I feel that the Armed Forces must change with the times. I have now left the Army and work part time as a diving instructor, operating under a fair and appropriate code of practice that requires no extra course.

    While I’m sure this may spark many a response, I would ask you to consider the bigger picture. You have been indoctrinated with the SADS mantra, in reality outside the British military it means nothing. Finally the statistics of dive incidents/accidents within the British Military are roughly equal to civilian stats!