Anyone ID this button?

#1
This button was found on the edge of Salisbury Plain (Heytesbury) and the finder is trying to ID it.

The only information is that it was made by Firmin & Sons at 47 Warwick Street, London sometime between 1879 and 1904.

Is it a button for a particular cap badge/unit?


If so, which one?

I know it is a long shot but was hoping someone could help.

Thanks.
 

Attachments

#2
Looks like a Prussian Eagle without the usual accoutrements and a Royal Navy badge with mailed fist and trident.
 
#4
Please don't name the unit, guys.
DIO will just tear their Regimental Museum a new one for littering the training estate.
 
#5
They look like Royal Naval Division badges but the three relevant ones (Howe, Anson and I think Hood) never served in the same brigade.

See if your local library has got, or can get, a copy of Kipling and King.
 
#6
Looks like a livery or hunt button to me.
That gets some poor obsolete regiment off the hook for littering the area. The MOD archiologists still havn't dug my slit trenches yet, thank heavens!
 
#7
Thanks for the very speedy replies.

All the information is very much appreciated.

It was assumed to be a military button owing to the location having been connected to extensive military activity for some considerable time.
 
#9
That looks like a "Ducal Coronet", as opposed to a Crown. I'd go with the Hunt or Livery button.

It may be worth checking to see if there is a maker's name on the reverse and see if the company has any modern descendants and check their records?
 
#10
Looks like a descendant company might be:
[h=3]Contact Firmin & Sons Ltd[/h]
Address:
Firmin & Sons Limited
Firmin House
82-86 New Town Row
Birmingham
B6 4HU
 
#11
That looks like a "Ducal Coronet", as opposed to a Crown. I'd go with the Hunt or Livery button.
I leaned towards that route and perhaps a family with a naval connection and came across the following- which may of course have nothing whatever to do with it !!

It refers to Capt Broke of HMS Shannon

Captain Broke defeated the Chesapeake in an engagement which only lasted a very short time. He was granted an additional crest, namely, an arm holding a trident and issuing from a naval crown, together with the motto, "Sævumque tridentem servamus."
A COMPLETE GUIDE TO HERALDRY by ARTHUR CHARLES FOX-DAVIES
 
#12
Interesting find.

The Broke family's other crest is a badger, though, and they hail from Suffolk;

A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerage and Baronetage of the ... - Google Books

Ah! A Lord Heytesbury connection:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ge&q=heraldry naval crown trident arm&f=false

p316, right hand column.



http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ed=0CEMQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=heytesbury&f=false

So, Heytesbury has an eagle holding a lily and the crown and trident comes down the female line from Admiral Sir Robert Holmes in 1668.

http://www.myfamilysilver.com/crestfinder-search/a'court-family-crest



http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...CEgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=A'Court-Holmes&f=false

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...=0CEUQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=heytesbury&f=false

Though the trident is the other way round.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
Broke's family seem to have been related to the Veres, who's crest is an eagle as on the left of the button, so you might be on to something.
 
#14
I had a look at the Broke of HMS Shannon fame, and his equally impressive family. The arm holding the trident which Tawahi 50so diligently spotted sadly doesn't fit. The arm is outstretched on the coat of arms, unlike on the button where it is bent at the elbow.
I think we are certainly onto it, well done chaps.
 
#16
It looks as if the ducal coronet is that of a Baron: the chicken on a stick chewing a lily looks to be the family crest of the A'Court-Holmes family.
In myfamilysilver.com, this is listed, under a drawing of the crest, it says: Baron Heytesbury.
 
#17
Brotherton Lad, I think you have nailed it as that of the Baron Heytesbury. So its a livery button.

Baron Heytesbury, of Heytesbury in the County of Wiltshire, is a title in the Peerage of the United Kingdom. It was created in 1828 for the prominent politician and diplomat Sir William à Court, 2nd Baronet, who later served as Ambassador to Russia and as Viceroy of Ireland. His son, the second Baron, sat as Member of Parliament for the Isle of Wight. On his marriage in 1837 to Elizabeth Holmes, daughter of Sir Leonard Worsley Holmes, Lord Heytesbury assumed the additional surname of Holmes. As of 2010[update] the titles are held by his great-great-great-grandson, the seventh Baron, who succeeded his father in 2004.
 
#18
I'm guessing it was this mans livery then (either him or his father):

hacwilliamfrederick_(2).jpg

[h=2]William Frederick Holmes à Court, 3rd Baron[/h][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]
  • Born: 25 June 1862, Milton Lodge, Wells, Somerset
  • Christened: 27 July 1862, Cheddar, Somerset
  • Marriage: Margaret Anna Harman on 19 November 1887 in Rodden, Somerset
  • Died: 15 August 1903 aged 41
  • Buried: 18 August 1903, Heytesbury, Wiltshire [SUP]42[/SUP]
[/SIZE][/FONT]
Cause of his death was Diabetes?.
[SIZE=+1]General Notes: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]From The Times, August 17, 1903

The death has occurred of William Frederick Holmes-A'Court, third
Baron Heytesbury, after a short illness, at his residence,
Heytesbury-house, Wiltshire. Born in 1862, the eldest son of the Hon.
William Leonard Holmes-A'Court, by Isabella Sophia, daughter of the
Rev. Richard A'Court Beadon, of Cheddar, he married in 1887 Margaret
Anna, daughter of Mr. J. H. Harman, of Tadmarton, Oxford, and
succeeded to the title on the death of his grandfather, the second
baron, in 1891. Lord Heytesbury was for many years well known-in
connexions

Inscription found in Heytesbury Church:

In ever loving memory of William Frederick 3rd Baron Heytesbury born
25th June 1862 fell asleep 15th August 1903 deeply mourned.
Also his wife Margaret Anna who died 7th January 1920 and is buried in
Cape Town. "Until the day break, and the shadows flee away"

Known as Uncle Dick.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Burial Notes: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] Burial[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Noted events in his life were:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1. Visitor: 1871, The Vicarage, Cheddar, Somerset. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]2. He appeared on the census in 1881 in Byne Lodge, Storrington, Sussex. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]3. Acceded to title: 21 April 1891. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]4. He appeared on the census in 1891 in Heytesbury House, Heytesbury, Wiltshire. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]5. Census UK 1901: 1901, Heytesbury House, Heytesbury, Wiltshire. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]William married Margaret Anna Harman, daughter of John Nixon Harman and Margaret Elizabeth Day, on 19 November 1887 in Rodden, Somerset. (Margaret Anna Harman was born in 1864 in Tadmarton, Oxfordshire and died in January 1920 in Cape Town, South Africa.)[/SIZE]
 
#19
An amazing thread, I'm impressed by you all, but especially BrothertonLad
 

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