Anyone Done An ISO 9001 Lead/Internal Auditor Course...

#1
... if you have, what can I expect? Is it a toughie? Looking at a few of the course providers, its a 5 day course with a pretty full programme. Can I expect long nights studying :|, or long nights in the bar :thumright:?
 
#2
It's a while since I did this, but what I remember most were the biscuits. The course is a piece of piss, providing you are reasonably intelligent and I would expect your liver to suffer somewhat.
 
#3
Did mine internal auditor course 6 years ago. Not particularly challenging and can't see how you could possibily drag it out for 5 days. Mine was only 1.5 days.
 
#4
Is Internal Auditor civvy speak for Inspecting the troops/stores/accounts?
 
#5
Did mine internal auditor course 6 years ago. Not particularly challenging and can't see how you could possibily drag it out for 5 days. Mine was only 1.5 days.
Different course.
Is Internal Auditor civvy speak for Inspecting the troops/stores/accounts?
No, this one equips you to audit external companies to ensure they comply with ISO 9000 series. It also equips you to carry out internal audits of your organization to check the same thing.
 
#7
... if you have, what can I expect? Is it a toughie? Looking at a few of the course providers, its a 5 day course with a pretty full programme. Can I expect long nights studying :|, or long nights in the bar :thumright:?
It's not a tough course and nights in the bar shouldn't cause harm ...

Bottom line with ISO is "Say what you do and do what you say you do" As an auditor, you're ensuring that they are in compliance with their own Quality Manual.

If you can get formal certification, it can give a good career course for the future - enjoy and have a pint or twelve for me ... :)
 
#8
If you can get formal certification, it can give a good career course for the future - enjoy and have a pint or twelve for me ... :)
I just checked the slush fund. More than I thought! I'll have a pint for all the ARRSE'rs. :plotting:
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
Did mine years ago - helps if one is a small minded perfectionist who loves lists.
The theory is that you review the process to find problems and ways of improvement. Just reviewing the paperwork is a very poor way of carrying out the audit. A good auditor will find ways of making their own company (or their suppliers) work just that fraction more efficiently.

But 95% of auditors just check that the correct paperwork is in place - which is why ISO 9000 has such a piss poor reputation.

My starting point for an audit was always to flowchart the process and then check how well variation was controlled at each stage. Less variation = more consistent process = opportunities for optimization.

Wordsmith
 
#12
Done this last year with IQMS, they were on my door step and fairly cheap + give you a 1 day foundation cse in any other discipline for being forces, pish easy (I had little knowledge and next to no hands on prior to cse), get a copy of the iso 9001 standard and of iso 19011 and iso 17021 and digest.good luck. pm me if you have any questions.
 
#13
Done this last year with IQMS, they were on my door step and fairly cheap + give you a 1 day foundation cse in any other discipline for being forces, pish easy (I had little knowledge and next to no hands on prior to cse), get a copy of the iso 9001 standard and of iso 19011 and iso 17021 and digest.good luck. pm me if you have any questions.
Nice one Wordsmith & kuntiebaws. How the f*** am I supposed to type kuntiebaws without saying it in a bad Scottish accent?
 
#14
Im an SHEQ manager and therefore manager our ISO 9001 certification. I would agree with wordsmith that a lot of auditors don't really know what they look at, but thats down to the accreditation body you go with ( UKAS are getting quite hot on this and have withdrawn their accreditation for a number of companies). I would disagree with Wordsmith in his suggestion that it has a poor reputation.....it most certainly does not and for us its vital.

If you are going for the qualification, you may struggle to get the auditing experience. Try and find a training company that will give you the experience, or do some voluntary audits to get yourself into it.




All socialists are cnuts : )
 
#15
I've been working on and off in ISO 9000 accredited businesses for 20 years and have done significant business with ISO 9000 accredited suppliers. Drain_Sniffer is right; Quality Assurance is a vital tool in product, service and business process improvement. ISO accreditation is a go / no go decision for clients in many sectors. It definitely does not "have a bad reputation": in fact, the opposite.

The issue with auditors is that often they lack understanding of business and are over pedantic. Auditing does tend to attract "procedures people" who see life set against a set of rules, so audits become pass / fail tests rather than vehicles for continuous improvement. Really good auditors are few and far between, but make big contributions especially in organisations that buy into QA as a vehicle that underpins continuous improvement across the business as opposed to a certificate that they have to have to sell.

As for the course, I have never done it myself, but I have sent two of my team members on it. Both were bright guys and both came back quite stretched by the course.
 
#16
When I did mine had a hoot of a time. We had a muppet from a well-known West Midlands based motor manufacturer who just agrued the toss with the lecturer, because he thought he could! Imagine how we laughed when he, ahem, didn't pass!
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
I've been working on and off in ISO 9000 accredited businesses for 20 years and have done significant business with ISO 9000 accredited suppliers. Drain_Sniffer is right; Quality Assurance is a vital tool in product, service and business process improvement. ISO accreditation is a go / no go decision for clients in many sectors. It definitely does not "have a bad reputation": in fact, the opposite.
Reputation depends on the on the company. I have known some excellent companies use ISO 9000 extremely effectively and gain from it. However, my experience of ISO 900 companies suggests that 80% - 90% are badge on the wall companies who have the paperwork systems for show but don't really run the systems.

For ISO 9000 to work properly, it needs a champion at the highest level of the company - preferably the CEO. Most companies don't have that and thus the ISO 9000 system flounders from lack of resource and from indifference.

The issue with auditors is that often they lack understanding of business and are over pedantic. Auditing does tend to attract "procedures people" who see life set against a set of rules, so audits become pass / fail tests rather than vehicles for continuous improvement. Really good auditors are few and far between, but make big contributions especially in organisations that buy into QA as a vehicle that underpins continuous improvement across the business as opposed to a certificate that they have to have to sell.
Again, that depends on the company. I have known some very capable auditors just give up and go through the motions because they knew that whatever recommendations for improvements they made were going to be ignored.

One of the best companies I ever audited also had the least paper work. That was because they laid such emphasis on quality and training their staff to be quality conscious that extensive form filling to demonstrate compliance was simply unnecessary.

Wordsmith
 
#18
Wordsmith, the point is that you cannot have Quality without a Quality Management System. If you have a QMS, then accreditation is a natural step. Agreed, there are lots of businesses around that have ISO 9000 accreditation as a badge or because it is a mandatory pre-qualification requirement. But there are very few that deliver Quality that do not have a QMS.

The issue of auditors recommendations being ignored is an old one, but don't forget that the auditor is only there to observe what he / she sees and to make recommendations. The decision to invest in the recommended improvements rests with the business managers and has to be taken on commercial grounds alone. No business should spend money unless there is a clear business reason to do so. In my experience, few auditors have any real understanding of the commercial realities of their recommendations (and nor do they need to ).

Your point about paperwork is well made. Quality is a cultural issue that has to go from top to bottom of a business without exception. There are to many who still hang their hat on the old style pre ISO9000 2000 form filling culture.
 
#19
In answer to the original post, the course is fairly good and you should expect to be working at least one evening during it. Since Jan 2012 the two hour exam on the last day has been 'closed-book', which has added some difficulty but you should be fine if you've stayed awake during the week.

Doing the course doesn't give you the Certified Auditor/Lead Auditor title. To get this, you must carry out five audits, including two full system audits with at least one while leading a team that includes at least one other person - unless your in an auditing role for a large organisation, you may struggle to get this experience.

One thing I would say is check out the training provider carefully, although more expensive, courses done by the CBs (such as BSi) or by established providers such as Batallas should be the ones to go for.
 
#20
Dusting this down after 3 years , has anyone else here qualified in more than 9001 ? Ive done the 9001, 14001 and 18001 and now looking for work . If anyone has any constructive help please share or pm me .
Cheers
 

Latest Threads

Top