Anyone been seen of by redundancy in Tranche 1, 2 or 3?

#1
There is still a group of people made redundant very close to qualifying for the immediate pension who are still fighting the Government and MOD for fairer compensation solution for all affected and not just move the line. The MOD are still trying to ignore the issue. Just wondered if there's anyone from tranche 3 who has been seen off by the MOD? The way the redundancy package is designed it causes a huge difference in the total pension and redundancy package for the sake of 1 day of service around the qualifying point for an immediate pension. Even the senior officers who are heavily involved in the redundancy programme don't seem to acknowledge this cliff edge effect. If you want to know more see http://pensionjusticefortroops.wordpress.com/ freedom of information request suggests there are 132 people affected from tranches 1 and 2.
 
#2
I still fail to see how people have been 'seen off' Redundancy packages were fair enough.
 
#3
Everyone has a different view of fair, but I would suggest the difference between a total pension and redundancy package of £140,000 (from leaving to the age of 65 when the full pension kicks in) at 17 years 364 days of service and a total pension and redundancy package of £340,000 (from leaving to the age of 65) at 18 years service for a SSgt is slightly unfair. £200,000 financial difference for 1 day of service difference.
 
#4
Why is it unfair? Theres a line, a requirement, if you haven't met it you don't qualify.

Discount the people who elected for redundancy - they have no say in the matter.

It's called life. It's only the ****ing greedy bastards moaning.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#5
dingerr, I am guessing you weren't directly affected and haven't lost out on 2/3rds of the financial security you'd been counting on through your career?

I am sure that it would be illegal in civvy street to let someone complete 95% of their contract, but only give them 1/3rd of the 'agreed' sum at the end?
Want to calculate how much you'd be entitled to in civvy street?
https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-redundancy-pay
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#7
Useful, but those affected by the ARMED FORCES REDUNDANCY SCHEME aren't civvies!

The pension is a significnat lure, it helps justify why we drag families around, undermine partners careers and go to the places we go and do the things we do.

They have entered a trust based employment system, based around the values and standards and the covenant. This has not been honoured and is morally wrong.
All public sector pensions are being reduced, pay more, pay longer, get less.
I've every sympathy.
 
#8
dingerr, I am guessing you weren't directly affected and haven't lost out on 2/3rds of the financial security you'd been counting on through your career?

I am sure that it would be illegal in civvy street to let someone complete 95% of their contract, but only give them 1/3rd of the 'agreed' sum at the end?
People have received a fair redundancy payment, in fact the MoD has been more than fair by allowing those that have completed 18 years (thats less than 90% of the AGREED contract) to receive an immediate pension.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#10
I struggle to understand how there is not popular support for this from servicemen and veterans!

The reduction in qualfiying service from 22 to 18 yrs for ORs is reasonable, unless you've served 17 yrs 364 days! It's easy to say 'theres a line and your the wrong side of it' if you aren't affected. That's the sort of chat expected from politicians and senior officers.

In the case of officers' they recieved no reduction in qualifying period, so can have served up to 99.9%, but still lose out by 50-60% as to what they expected (as has happened to a number of infantry majors on Tranche 2)!
From my perspective, because you are getting a very, very good deal.

Your legal entitlement is in the order of £7,200 in the example I used above. You are not entitled to an IP until you hit the 22 year point, so any allowance made for a pension that you are not entitled to is a bonus. The fact that you fell the wrong side of the line that had been generously drawn some way below the legal requirement for the higher rate is unfortunate for you, but still very generous.

Would you be posting if the line had been drawn the "good" side of your length of service?
 
#12
Useful, but those affected by the ARMED FORCES REDUNDANCY SCHEME aren't civvies!

The pension is a significnat lure, it helps justify why we drag families around, undermine partners careers and go to the places we go and do the things we do.
No, thats what the x-factor is for. Your partner did not join the Army, the Army owes her fcuk all in terms of career. Seeing the places we do and doing the things we do is usually seen as a positive by us none grabbing, none greedy b@stards.

They have entered a trust based employment system, based around the values and standards and the covenant. This has not been honoured and is morally wrong.
Absolute rubbish, values and standards are for you to attain, the MoD has more than fulfilled its obligation with regard to the covenant.

This is nothing but pure greed. The figures you have mentioned are incorrect - its nearer the $140k mark, but that is only realised if you both hit 65.

You neglected to mention that the SSgt having completed 17y 364d will leave with £50k more in his pocket than the SSgt who has completed 18y.

GREEDY FCUKING PIGS!
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#13
I am affected - I am one of the people who are having to pay taxes which get used to fund these redundancy packages.

They are far, far, more generous that would be made available to other public sector workers being made redundant. It is not just about cutting the numbers, it is about cutting the right numbers from the right employment groups at the right time.

The "legitimate expectation" is what the law requires to be paid, or what your contract states. Your contract states that you are entitled to an IP at the 22 year point. Anything before that is exceeding that expectation.
 
#14
Because I'm honest and can see through your bullsh1t?

That makes you a greedy pig then.
 
#15
An independent actuary has done the calculations for us, but if your happy with your maths......

You should read values and standards again, I think loyalty works both ways.........

The RBL have stated quite clearly that these circumstances breach the spirit of the covenant.....

But you happily spend your working day drawing the Queen's shilling, surfing forums to post over 12,000 cantankerous and ill concieved paragraphs on here! Perhaps you should give up the X-factor, as you clearly aren't earning it.

And yes, this is a bite, so well done.
"Dingerr" has given rather more to justify his current occupation and employment status than you will ever wish to. Become better informed: it might make you want to change your opinion, or stance.
 
#16
An independent actuary has done the calculations for us, but if your happy with your maths......
I'm more than happy with my maths. I think you're bullsh1ting about the independent actuary, but even if you are not that are wrong. (Based on the example provided at post #3).

You should read values and standards again, I think loyalty works both ways.........
I've read them, aspired, achieved and instilled them. What's you're excuse? Show me which value or standard the MoD has failed you on.

The RBL have stated quite clearly that these circumstances breach the spirit of the covenant.....
If that's the official line of the RBL, show me.

But you happily spend your working day drawing the Queen's shilling, surfing forums to post over 12,000 cantankerous and ill concieved paragraphs on here! Perhaps you should give up the X-factor, as you clearly aren't earning it.

And yes, this is a bite, so well done.
So you expect me to agree with you, simply because that's what you want? Those values and standards of yours went out the window very quickly didn't they? Integrity? (Moral) Courage? Loyalty? Selfless Commitment? Respect for others?

You fail to put up a convincing argument to support your cause so resort to chastisement and name calling. Not only that, you offer fcuk all to this website and join it with the sole intention of selfishly subjugating people to your cause, without the common decency of being totally honest with them.

Have you checked all 12000+ posts? What does it matter to you how I choose to spend my free time?

And as for earning the queens shilling and x-factor, then maybe we should meet up to discuss the matter, just to highlight how much of a cnut you've made yourself look on these forums by that statement alone.

FCUKING GREEDY PIG
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#17
I'm more than happy with my maths. I think you're bullsh1ting about the independent actuary, but even if you are not that are wrong. (Based on the example provided at post #3).



I've read them, aspired, achieved and instilled them. What's you're excuse? Show me which value or standard the MoD has failed you on.



If that's the official line of the RBL, show me.



So you expect me to agree with you, simply because that's what you want? Those values and standards of yours went out the window very quickly didn't they? Integrity? (Moral) Courage? Loyalty? Selfless Commitment? Respect for others?

You fail to put up a convincing argument to support your cause so resort to chastisement and name calling. Not only that, you offer fcuk all to this website and join it with the sole intention of selfishly subjugating people to your cause, without the common decency of being totally honest with them.

Have you checked all 12000+ posts? What does it matter to you how I choose to spend my free time?

And as for earning the queens shilling and x-factor, then maybe we should meet up to discuss the matter, just to highlight how much of a cnut you've made yourself look on these forums by that statement alone.

FCUKING GREEDY PIG
Be fair it'd be illegal on civvy st.
 
#18
Sorry Duke, didn't relaise you were suffering so badly with this!

We are not 'other public sector workers'. I certainly didn't see many of them on my 'travels'.

In English law, the concept of legitimate expectation arises from administrative law, a branch of public law. In proceedings for judicial review, it applies the principles of fairness and reasonableness to the situation where a person has an expectation or interest in a public body retaining a long-standing practice or keeping a promise.

Oh, and we don't have a contract of employment by the way.....
What promise or long standing practice has the MoD broken?

Lets face it fella, if you had been better at your job, you wouldn't be getting binned.
 
#19
You know nothing about me whatsoever, this is not intended to be a credentials pi55ing contest!
Yet you feel its acceptable for you to do it?

All I know is that dingerr has trolled a legitimate an informative post with his conjecture and opinion. If he doesn't believe that there is a case then don't look at the blog, don't sign the petition and don't drag the thread down to his level.
Trolling? Is that the term for someone who doesn't agree with your opinion? The other posters on this thread must be trolling as well then.

I am happy to admit some fault here; I should never have been drawn by him. As you can imagine this is an emotive subject for those affected.
You're correct and it reveals your own lack of intelligence, demonstrating that you don't understand you're particularly well off. If you'd been smart and if you had a valid point you would have successfully offered a counter to my points. It's only an emotive subject for

FCUKING GREEDY PIGS
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#20
You know nothing about me whatsoever.
You appear to be a bitter, bottom third former Major who should be extremely embarrassed about his seeming inability to use the English language.

I know that you think it's a shame that some are getting kicked out prior to their 18yr point and therefore lose out on an Immediate Pension. However, the rest of us are relieved that the over-stretched MOD budget will be spent on something more useful than providing an exceedingly generous severance package to some passed-over SO2 Paperclips who was so poor at his job that the MOD decided to get rid of him.

No top-third individuals were made redundant. Given that you were clearly not in this bracket (and appear to be illiterate), do you think that you were really fulfilling your end of the contract?





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