Any truth in this description of the US military mindset?

#2
He seems to have dragged the American Civil War into his argument, so I think he may have other issues. The attitude in UK forces is more like "make sure you win".
 
#3
I did think his describing young officers as being in extended adolescence as being pretty accurate, though personally I wouldn't use it as a criticism, merely an observation.
He does however, seem to lay all of the blame at the feet of the military, and not those in charge i.e. the politicians. That the Americans pulled out of the Lebanon after the embassy bombing, or that Libya is approaching stalemate because we're trying to do everything from the air has less to do with an overenthusiastic military than it does with the political urge to do something, but not everything, needed. In fact, it is the liberal tendency that he espouses that perhaps leads to just the "defeats" he describes. Besides which, I do seem to recall that this time round the US military were saying anything but "can do" with regard to Libya.
In Britain at least, I think the military attitude is more along the lines of "we'll do what we can with what the politicians will let us have" and then proceed to do far more than what really should have been possible with those constraints on action, manpower, firepower, political backing and so on and so on.
 
#4
I think he's dead on the money for ALL militaries in that they inculcate a belief in their troops that they're "the best". After all, who wants to go into battle knowing they're "reasonably well trained according to NATO standards (but maybe not as good as the other side)".

There was a time when you'd get the odd jingoist here on Arrse spouting off how great the Brits were at fighting, but this hasn't really survived the clash with reality of the last 10 years.
 
#5
I think he's dead on the money for ALL militaries in that they inculcate a belief in their troops that they're "the best". After all, who wants to go into battle knowing they're "reasonably well trained according to NATO standards (but maybe not as good as the other side)".

There was a time when you'd get the odd jingoist here on Arrse spouting off how great the Brits were at fighting, but this hasn't really survived the clash with reality of the last 10 years.
Off with your head!
 
#6
Snide remarks by someone who fancies himself as a satirist and 'left-wing intellectual'

Not my experience of the US military at all

The 'wars' he quotes are really just incidents in longer campigns. I doubt that he has the attention span to consider such events in their strategic context, or appreciate the diffciulties of the military in trying to divine an effective campaign plan while accommodating political incoherence and the western bsessions with morality and legality while our opponents are unconstrained
 
#7
I just saw this, and wondered whether all of it was simply a distorted picture produced by anti-military propaganda (which would not be surprising given the source), and if any of it might apply to the British forces.

Morale to the Left, Morale to the Right, and Not a Stop to Think by Fred Reed

Apologies in advance for the annoyance factor (though it might be useful to anyone suffering from low blood pressure?).

Why would it be surprising given the source, Fred Reed is a former decorated Vietnam veteran ( a volunteer as opposed to a draftee ) or are you inferring he's some sort of liberal left winger ! I took the time to read through his archived articles and he makes a hellava lot of sense with regards to US policy abroad and the failed war on drugs, in fact I agreed with almost all his aticles or does that make me an anti US commie, in fact thanks on_leave for bringing him to my attention I'll be a regular reader from now on.
 
#8
I'd rather fight with the Yanks than against them. They may make some fumbles now and then, (usually when constrained by daft ROE's), but when the gloves come off, no one kills people and breaks things better.
 
#9
I just saw this, and wondered whether all of it was simply a distorted picture produced by anti-military propaganda (which would not be surprising given the source), and if any of it might apply to the British forces.

Morale to the Left, Morale to the Right, and Not a Stop to Think by Fred Reed

Apologies in advance for the annoyance factor (though it might be useful to anyone suffering from low blood pressure?).
Well for one its from Lew Rockwell.com the place prints Cindy Sheehan and Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan (in the original German), etc.

Reed lives in Mexico now, imagine how****ed up the head you have to be to willingly live there with its ongoing Narcowars thinking its better than the USA?

As to his article


First he asks why the USA cant win wars, then seems to blame it on wearing uniforms, and standing in formations. That Officers are Adolescents and Lifers are abnormal. He also seems to beleive that the Military doesnt have the capability and forces for differing types of warfare, Light vs. Mech.

His statement that the Marine Corps used to buld men until Feminists stopped it is ****ing ludicris, anyone whoes seen how Parris island trains would know reed is spewing out of his ass.
 
#11
I'd rather fight with the Yanks than against them. They may make some fumbles now and then, (usually when constrained by daft ROE's), but when the gloves come off, no one kills people and breaks things better.

Maybe in the more modern era (the advantage of wealth and technology?) but the Germans consistently outfought them in WW2 (And us!)
 
#12
Maybe in the more modern era (the advantage of wealth and technology?) but the Germans consistently outfought them in WW2 (And us!)
This would explain why the Germans won WWII.
 
#14
This would explain why the Germans won WWII.
Do your research-allied formations were regularly fought to a standstill by smaller German formations, who were under-equipped and under-strength.

Have a look at Martin Van Crevald's research...

As for them out-fighting us, look at the German invasion of France and tell me we weren't outfought
 
#15
As for them out-fighting us, look at the German invasion of France and tell me we weren't outfought
This would explain how the Germans were able to push the Americans back into the sea after they defeated them at Mortain and Herman Göring was able to keep to his promise that not a single bomb would fall on Berlin.
 
#16
Hang on you quote me talking about the German invasion of France in 1940 and you reply with 1944? And then add a reference to bombs on Berlin. FFS, even when Britain was on the ropes, we managed to bomb Berlin-hardly a convincing argument negating German fighting ability.

Okay, lets look at the German situation in 1944 shall we? Struggling in Russia, second rate and re-fitting troops in the West, crippled by Allied air superiority and yet still the Allies struggled. For an example of the German mindset and response to crisis, look at Arnhem and their use of kampfgruppe etc. Read up on the Huertgen Forest etc.

Although the politics of Nazi Germany were abhorrent and although much of the popular idea of Blitzkrieg is myth, the fighting power of the German army, even as it edged closer to defeat, was simply un-rivalled.

Sorry just had a moment of clarity as to who or what you are Sunof! It is no coincidence that your riposte comes from the game Company Of Heroes is it? Don't base your history on digital renditions where fighting power is judged on how dexterous you are with your right wrist....
 
#17
Hang on you quote me talking about the German invasion of France in 1940 and you reply with 1944? And then add a reference to bombs on Berlin. FFS, even when Britain was on the ropes, we managed to bomb Berlin-hardly a convincing argument negating German fighting ability.

Okay, lets look at the German situation in 1944 shall we? Struggling in Russia, second rate and re-fitting troops in the West, crippled by Allied air superiority and yet still the Allies struggled. For an example of the German mindset and response to crisis, look at Arnhem and their use of kampfgruppe etc. Read up on the Huertgen Forest etc.

Although the politics of Nazi Germany were abhorrent and although much of the popular idea of Blitzkrieg is myth, the fighting power of the German army, even as it edged closer to defeat, was simply un-rivalled.

Sorry just had a moment of clarity as to who or what you are Sunof! It is no coincidence that your riposte comes from the game Company Of Heroes is it? Don't base your history on digital renditions where fighting power is judged on how dexterous you are with your right wrist....
ISTR that Allied planning assumptions were that 10 German troops were worth 12 British or US troops - or 50 Russians! Also there were many instances of a handful of Panzers, or even a single one, holding up entire allied divisions for several hours in 1944/5.
 
#18
The History of WWII according to Northern Monkey


April 1945 - The outfought Americans pass columns of victorious German POW's as the US Army retreats in disorder towards Berlin.
 
#19
Hang on you quote me talking about the German invasion of France in 1940 and you reply with 1944? And then add a reference to bombs on Berlin. FFS, even when Britain was on the ropes, we managed to bomb Berlin-hardly a convincing argument negating German fighting ability.
Do try and keep up, this thread is about the Americans.


Okay, lets look at the German situation in 1944 shall we? Struggling in Russia, second rate and re-fitting troops in the West, crippled by Allied air superiority and yet still the Allies struggled. For an example of the German mindset and response to crisis, look at Arnhem and their use of kampfgruppe etc. Read up on the Huertgen Forest etc.

.
You're sounding here like the worst sort of neo-nazi historical revionist.
'Ve vould haf von ze var but ze cheating Amerikans used superior air power'!

Try doing some objective research and you'd realise the problems the Allies faced in late 1944 were almost entirely due to our very long logistics chain and the Germans falling back to the centre of their logistics supply base, the Ruhr. Once we opened Antwerp and shortened the supply chain by many hundreds of miles, the Germans were routed in fairly short order. Battle of the Ruhr pocket anyone?


Although the politics of Nazi Germany were abhorrent and although much of the popular idea of Blitzkrieg is myth, the fighting power of the German army, even as it edged closer to defeat, was simply un-rivalled.
They were rubbish from 1943 through to 1945, pure and simple. Try and read up on Operation Bagration were the Russians completely destroyed Army Group Centre inflicting more casualties than were inflicted on them by the 'superior' German Army.


Sorry just had a moment of clarity as to who or what you are Sunof! It is no coincidence that your riposte comes from the game Company Of Heroes is it? Don't base your history on digital renditions where fighting power is judged on how dexterous you are with your right wrist....

Nope, you may be very familiar with some game called Company of Heros, I've never heard of it. Is it some walty war game were armchair generals refight WWII and ze Germans win?
 
#20
Something very basic has been overlooked,Germany, Japan and their allies lost!Simples!How come if they were so great,so wonderbar,they still ended up getting a shoeing from the allies,the U.S.played a very large part in this defeat of the axis forces.The U.S.supplied manpower second only to the U.S.S.R.and resources to the allies on a scale second to none that allowed the victory.What ever the faults real or imagined,the U.S.is/has not been found wanting in commiting it's resourses,(o.k.for a price).
 

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