Any reason why we're not selling DARING class ships?

Mach 3:
The US Naval War College has suggested that the SAMPSON radar is capable of tracking 1,000 objects the size of a cricket ball travelling at three times the speed of sound
What are they doing? Practicing how to win the Ashes using a bowling machine? :)
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
Probably because those nations that require an all-up task force and area air-defence ship are the nations that would rather pay over the odds to maintain a domestic ship building industry for high end defence purposes. Who would be in the market? USA, China maybe France?

Well the USA really do have a major not-invented-here thing when it comes to major platforms. Before @Goldbricker turns up and posts the extensive list of non-US developed kit... Yes BUT I don't recall any of the items on that list being major platforms like aircraft, ships and submarines.

China? Not a ******* hope in hell even if they are offering double the going rate.

France? Rather build their own and they have a subtly different doctrine than the RN.
Bad form quoting my own post but...

Forgot to mention Japan. They have very similar strategic needs to the UK, being a island bound constitutional monarchy off the coast of a continent containing burgeoning or aspirational super powers, with a economy focused upon foreign trade. But again they are willing to spend money to maintain a domestic industry (and the science and engineering infrastructure for R&D).

However as has been mentioned on a number of the air threads they would be a natural partner for the expensive bit of a warship production cycle. I.e. the development of the mission systems aboard the ships. Anyone more in the know if they would be looking at a replacement air-defence destroyer around the time we would be looking at replacing the T45? Or for the foreseeable does it look like they will be building enlarged versions of the Kongo with incremental improvements?
 
Bad form quoting my own post but...

Forgot to mention Japan. They have very similar strategic needs to the UK, being a island bound constitutional monarchy off the coast of a continent containing burgeoning or aspirational super powers, with a economy focused upon foreign trade. But again they are willing to spend money to maintain a domestic industry (and the science and engineering infrastructure for R&D).

However as has been mentioned on a number of the air threads they would be a natural partner for the expensive bit of a warship production cycle. I.e. the development of the mission systems aboard the ships. Anyone more in the know if they would be looking at a replacement air-defence destroyer around the time we would be looking at replacing the T45? Or for the foreseeable does it look like they will be building enlarged versions of the Kongo with incremental improvements?
T45s with a few P-1s to complement them would've been good.....but lets not bring up the P1s again...spilt milk under the bridge.
 
Have a quick look for Project NAPIER, T45 Power Improvement Program, T45 Equipment Improvement Program.
Just beginning up on the Mersey. First of the brutes should be arriving in the River end of the year.

As to another reason for not exporting T45, it was never intended for export and the assembly facilities/apparatus for it as well as major elements of its plant are no longer in existence.
 
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rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
The yanks are probably wishing they had some instead of Zumwalt!

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You're telling me


Ouch

I wonder how many aircraft carriers you could buy for that ;-)
 
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rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Lot of reasons, some already noted.

5. Zumwalt was against a different requirement - and contained so much US tech development investment it was always going to go ahead to some degree.


Basically T45 is a good combat system design in an OK ship at the wrong time....
I have come to the conclusion that the Zumwalts are basically 21st Century Monitors with all the vices and limitations of that class of ship
 
I want to know why ships with enclosed sides above deck have only just been thought of, seems to me an obvious way to protect the crew from the weather and bangy stuff ?
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
I want to know why ships with enclosed sides above deck have only just been thought of, seems to me an obvious way to protect the crew from the weather and bangy stuff ?
Because increased automation and improved sensors have reduced the need for sailors to operate outwith the security of the hull.
 
Because increased automation and improved sensors have reduced the need for sailors to operate outwith the security of the hull.
Actually, more like a change in attitude. Once upon a time, access along the ship on the weatherdeck was seen as a necessity. Then people started to cost up the amount of preventative and corrective maintenance needed for weatherdecks and fittings and figured out it was quite substantial.

There was also the need to reduce RCS (hence internal boatbays, reduction of external clutter etc). Plus internal volume and deck area being at even more of a premium as accommodation standards and access requirements increased.

All came together at a similar time.
 
I have come to the conclusion that the Zumwalts are basically 21st Century Monitors with all the vices and limitations of that class of ship
They're not even that. If anything, they're the equivalent of FIsher's Courageous, Glorious, Furious - or even Yamato & Musashi. Design philosophy driven to an extreme place by particular requirements where they're either too expensive or have a very limited role.
 
I thought this Zumwalt class had been dropped already, perhaps I dreamed the future?

Is this one of those "7bn sunk costs so we might as well finish it" or is there some credibility to the class?
 
They're not even that. If anything, they're the equivalent of Fisher's Courageous, Glorious, Furious - or even Yamato & Musashi. Design philosophy driven to an extreme place by particular requirements where they're either too expensive or have a very limited role.
Top marks for referencing HM Ships Curious, Spurious and Outrageous!
 
I thought this Zumwalt class had been dropped already, perhaps I dreamed the future?

Is this one of those "7bn sunk costs so we might as well finish it" or is there some credibility to the class?
They're finishing three of them, and then that's it. They are being finished to a lower standard of design, material, equipment, and armament than originally planned in order to save money.

The next problem of course will be to find something for them to do, as it's difficult to think of a role for them in which they could be useful on a day to day basis.
 
They're finishing three of them, and then that's it. They are being finished to a lower standard of design, material, equipment, and armament than originally planned in order to save money.

The next problem of course will be to find something for them to do, as it's difficult to think of a role for them in which they could be useful on a day to day basis.
Could act as quasi coast guard vessels. Expensive ones, that is.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Plus
not everyone needs to be able to intercept a Mach 5 cricket ball fifty miles away;
not everyone wants to buy from BAE; and
not everyone wants a ship that is more grumpy about overly warm water than a newly born infant...
If they all come fitted with a Steve Smith, I'm not surprised they're pricey.
 

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