Anti-semitism debate, 17 Apr 18

Why do the Arab nations have such a problem with Israel?

The Jews took a desert with no natural resources, made it bloom and built a 1st world country and economy.

Despite having virtually unlimited natural resources, and no ongoing and constant existential threat to fend off, nearly all of the Arab world are still sitting in 3rd world housing and living in poverty in failed 3rd world States.

Israel is a constant reminder to Arabs leaders what a total horlicks they've made of things.
The poorest Arab living in Israel has a better standard of living and vastly better civil rights than the vast majority of Arabs living in Arabs States.
Pretty much sums up the conclusion I reached after spending a couple of weeks touring Israel and (in a more limited way) it's neighbours, in 2001.

OK, I was a Brit delegate, on an IDF course, aimed firmly at creating a positive impact on its attendees, BUT fark-my-old-boots, the gulf between what the Red Sea pedestrians have done with their slice of the ME, compared to their most fortunate/industrious Arab neighbours has to be seen to be believed.

It's no wonder they're disliked by rulers whose power and prestige hangs off something close to serfdom.

It's somewhat harder to grasp why any modern western person with an idea of 'work ethic' would find Jewish people collectively repugnant.

I guess these Corbynite types simply don't fit any part of my description.
 
Last edited:
Everyone kind of omits to mention how ‘robust’ the Arabs could be in dealing with the Palestinians.
The Jordanians killed 3,500 of them driving them out to Lebanon.
Any link to that? Especially as the Jordanians are supposed to be one of the most democratically minded nations of the arab world.
Not a stitch up here. A genuine quest for information.
 
Pretty much sums up the conclusion I reached after spending a couple of weeks touring Israel and it's neighbours (in a more limited way) in 2001.

OK, I was a Brit delegate, on an IDF course, aimed firmly at creating a positive impact on its attendees, BUT fark-my-old-boots, the gulf between what the Red Sea pedestrians have done with their slice of the ME, compared to their most fortunate/industrious Arab neighbours has to be seen to be believed.

It's no wonder they're disliked by rulers whose power and prestige hangs off something close to serfdom.

It's somewhat harder to grasp why any modern western person with an idea of 'work ethic' would find Jewish people collectively repugnant.

I guess these Corbynite types simply don't fit any part of my description.

Everything you say is spot on until the last sentence.

You’ve let the site down, you’ve let yourself down, but happily you’ve come through handsomely for the current propagandists.

The terms ‘Corbyn’ and ‘anti Semitic’ have been successfully linked in your mind.


Have a Rich Tea.
 
I was once on a bus travelling up Seven Sisters Road in London. It's quite a steep slope and I looked out to my right. A middle aged Jewish chap, long black coat, fur hat and sweating like buggery. He was pedalling like feck and overtook the bus. Talk about industrious. Very impressive, :cool:
 
The terms ‘Corbyn’ and ‘anti Semitic’ have been successfully linked in your mind.


Have a Rich Tea.
Now how could that possibly happen? Is it:
(a) It's all a filthy Jew plot.
(b) Corbyn allies himself with antisemites, fails to act on antisemitism in his party, and hates them pesky Jews.

I prefer Tesco choccy digestive biccies.
 
Last edited:
You may be right about the Nazis hiding behind concerns over Israel.
Hmm, remind me, how is the Nazi party doing electorally these days? And the insane left wing of the Labour party?
Which is of course excellent news for Israel supporters seeking to deflect criticism.
Not so great for British Jews in general, who are suffering levels of prejudice and abuse unprecedented in recent years. Much of which originated in the hard left, and other groups Corbyn is fond of.
 
Now how could that possibly happen? Is it:
(a) It's all a filthy Jew plot.
(b) Corbyn allies himself with antisemites, fails to act on antisemitism in his party, and hates them pesky Jews.

I prefer Tesco choccy digestive biccies.
One word.


Foxes choc fudge crunch creams.


Ok that’s more than one.
 
Hmm, remind me, how is the Nazi party doing electorally these days? And the insane left wing of the Labour party?

Not so great for British Jews in general, who are suffering levels of prejudice and abuse unprecedented in recent years. Much of which originated in the hard left, and other groups Corbyn is fond of.
And you absolutely have to keep the distinction ‘twixt moronic Jew-hatred* and legitimate, if unacceptably personalised and violently expressed, criticism of Israel’s misdeeds.




*that’s ‘hatred of Jews. The hatred demonstrating that the hater is acting moronically’. Not ‘hatred of Jews who are morons’.
 
Hmm, remind me, how is the Nazi party doing electorally these days? And the insane left wing of the Labour party?

Not so great for British Jews in general, who are suffering levels of prejudice and abuse unprecedented in recent years. Much of which originated in the hard left, and other groups Corbyn is fond of.
Here's one example of a Jewish MP and the abuse they experience in Ilford, unsurprisingly it's Muslims causing the worst abuse
 
Any link to that? Especially as the Jordanians are supposed to be one of the most democratically minded nations of the arab world.
Not a stitch up here. A genuine quest for information.

King Hussain was a ‘good’ Arab ruler, but the Palestinians were acting like an occupying power avd got bit.

The Counterterrorism Handbook

If you want to add civilians, yiu can bump that figure up to 15,000 Palestinians killed.
 
And you absolutely have to keep the distinction ‘twixt moronic Jew-hatred* and legitimate, if unacceptably personalised and violently expressed, criticism of Israel’s misdeeds.




*that’s ‘hatred of Jews. The hatred demonstrating that the hater is acting moronically’. Not ‘hatred of Jews who are morons’.
The trouble is, for the most part there's very little to no distinction between the two, particularly from the hard left. Changing out "Jew" for "Zio" when screaming / whispering about a conspiracy controlling the western powers doesn't mean they're not being antisemitic, it just means they're trying to give themselves a fig leaf to defend their prejudice with.

Edited to add: I am not a big fan of Israel and whilst I believe they have no easy choices if they want to survive, I'm critical of some of their actions. However "legitimate criticism of Israel's misdeeds" loses much of its legitimacy when it is "unacceptably personalised and violently expressed".
 
Last edited:
Any link to that? Especially as the Jordanians are supposed to be one of the most democratically minded nations of the arab world.
Not a stitch up here. A genuine quest for information.
Yasir Arafat, Palestinian Leader and Mideast Provocateur, Is Dead at 75
Palestinian guerrillas began interfering with highway traffic, controlling Palestinian refugee camps, clashing with the Jordanian Army and systematically defying the government. In September 1970 -- later known to Palestinians as Black September -- King Hussein sent troops and armor into Amman, his capital, to suppress the P.L.O. After days of shelling refugee camps where some 60,000 Palestinians lived, the army drove the would-be usurpers out of Jordan.

Conservative estimates put Palestinian losses at 2,000. Mr. Arafat, who made his way unharmed to Cairo, later claimed that Jordan's Army had killed 25,000. By the following summer, the army had nullified the P.L.O. as a military power in Jordan. Sapped and shaken, the guerrilla movement drifted into Lebanon.
Wiki on 'Black September': Black September - Wikipedia
 
And FWIW, even the Quran says its the Jews turf

”O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has prescribed for you, and do not turn your backs, or you will become losers.”

Quran 5:21
 
Any link to that? Especially as the Jordanians are supposed to be one of the most democratically minded nations of the arab world.
Not a stitch up here. A genuine quest for information.
Just on that, last time I was in Jordan I fancied a beer. Now in some other places, getting one is like trying to do Tom Cruise Mission Impossible and enable from the ceiling. This may have influence the events I outline below.

Wondering in to an off-licence in Aqaba (lovely castle by the way), i tried my best Fuhsa on the chap behind the counter as I held two bottles of Petra ("The taste of the Rosy City", and a mere 10% - be careful after abstention during Ramadan and the heat of summer).

I politely asked in Arabic, if he needed to see my passport or ID in lieu of any licence.

Bloke looked at me, and in English said "What did you say?" Thinking I had messed up the Arabic (always a strong possibility), I repeated my question.

Chap looked at me with a slow smile, and simply said "My friend, Jordan is a free country".

Cracking country. From the castles of the North, to the beauty of Petra, the awesome Wadi Rum and delights of the Red Sea. I didn't meet any Jordanian (and I chatted with a lot) who were anything less than impeccably hospitable and very patient*

*and I deliberately went down some Diagon Alley side streets and souks to get off the Corniche-type vibe and find the real Jordan.
 
Just on that, last time I was in Jordan I fancied a beer. Now in some other places, getting one is like trying to do Tom Cruise Mission Impossible and enable from the ceiling. This may have influence the events I outline below.

Wondering in to an off-licence in Aqaba (lovely castle by the way), i tried my best Fuhsa on the chap behind the counter as I held two bottles of Petra ("The taste of the Rosy City", and a mere 10% - be careful after abstention during Ramadan and the heat of summer).

I politely asked in Arabic, if he needed to see my passport or ID in lieu of any licence.

Bloke looked at me, and in English said "What did you say?" Thinking I had messed up the Arabic (always a strong possibility), I repeated my question.

Chap looked at me with a slow smile, and simply said "My friend, Jordan is a free country".

Cracking country. From the castles of the North, to the beauty of Petra, the awesome Wadi Rum and delights of the Red Sea. I didn't meet any Jordanian (and I chatted with a lot) who were anything less than impeccably hospitable and very patient*

*and I deliberately went down some Diagon Alley side streets and souks to get off the Corniche-type vibe and find the real Jordan.
Was there in 97 and was pleasantly surprised to find Jack Cohens corner shop (Tescos) in Amman pleasantly stocked with a booze aisle same as in Britain.
No public drinking but having a quick Stolichnaya snifter in paper bag whilst sat in the back of an open pickup (bit nippy in October evenings) and a passing Police car merely asked us where we were from over the loudspeaker before wishing us a good time in Jordan!

It was actually a Palestinian who provided my lasting opinions on issues.

There was a some sort of election going on; go through one village - all the same candidate, next village another candidate - but no discernible voting splits within any village. I pointed this out and I got the feeling that a village as we'd recognise it was actually just an extended family area complete with the family candidate.
I asked whether someone would likely vote for another candidate (secret ballot same as any democratic country) and he suggested that it would become known who you voted for - or against.
Asked who he was voting for - they don't get the vote. At this point he said Palestinians in Jordan get treat very much as 2nd class (for reasons mentioned earlier in the thread - same in Kuwait) - he also added 'Israel is the only real democracy in the ME'. Asked why he didn't go there instead and he suggested Palestinians in Israel get ocassional shit from the Israelis but also leant on heavily by the usual Palestinian suspects to either contribute blood or treasure - so rather a second class citizen with an easy life in Jordan than getting crap from both sides in Israel.

Of course, when people are shouting the Palestinians cause and bad treatment they seem completely oblivious to the fact they get extremely badly treat by everyone - Egyptians, Jordanians, Kuwaitis etc their own 'representatives' Fatah, Hamas etc

But it's only ever the jews to blame isn't it?
 
Last edited:
Belfast Telegraph having a pop at Sein Fein:

The storm about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party is clearly irritating Jeremy Corbyn, who can’t see it.

The hard-Left — like virtue signallers everywhere — know they’re innocent, because they believe themselves without sin.

So does the cult that is Sinn Fein, which trains its gullible followers to be virulent anti-Semites.

They fly Palestinian flags much less as a mark of their compassion for Palestinians than as a sign of their hatred of Israelis.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top