Anthrax....Just for a giggle??

Anthrax..are you going to get the jabs?

  • No thanks...the rest of my family is still normal

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
#1
You've more than likely had the briefing or seen the video so who's up for a gamble with their health? My experience is that nearly to a man my unit has declined so how do you vote? :D :D
 
#2
I had one of those jabs, and my left arm went dead for about 3 days. Couldn't sleep, and couldn't lift my arm above my waist. I don't know wether that makes me a big wimp, or the nurse that gave it a sadistic bitch! :lol: I wouldn't recommend it.
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
#3
Perhaps as at today people will be less enthusiastic. About 15 months ago when yer man with the droopy 'tach was still around, and we all believed (really!) that he was going to lob the stuff all over the place as soon as we turned up on his doorstep as uninvited guests I can assure you that we all turned up at the Med Centre!!

I had all four, and (so far) can still walk and talk OK, although the second head takes some getting used to.
 
#4
Never had a problem with it. Okay, a dead arm for a day after but if I was in the same place facing the same uncertainty now as I was last year, yes, I'd get in line.... you'd have been daft not to.

I mean, it's like saying your going to refuse to wear your respirator because you get a sweat rash! If you don't feel the protection offered is good enough for you don't cry foul when the sh1t hits the fan. Everyone seems to blame every ache, pain or sniffle on anthrax, BAPS, NAPS etc.... get real, people get ill.

Now the vaccine the US use is a different kettle of fish, that baby is a 'live' vaccine and you could theoretically get anthrax from it..... not ours.
 
#5
Plant-Pilot said:
Never had a problem with it. Okay, a dead arm for a day after but if I was in the same place facing the same uncertainty now as I was last year, yes, I'd get in line.... you'd have been daft not to.

I mean, it's like saying your going to refuse to wear your respirator because you get a sweat rash! If you don't feel the protection offered is good enough for you don't cry foul when the sh1t hits the fan. Everyone seems to blame every ache, pain or sniffle on anthrax, BAPS, NAPS etc.... get real, people get ill.

Now the vaccine the US use is a different kettle of fish, that baby is a 'live' vaccine and you could theoretically get anthrax from it..... not ours.
I started my series when I got mobilized, but haven't completed it.

Six shots in the series at 50ml a jab. They alternate arms, but still ain't fun.
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
#6
Bubblehead - slightly worried that you are having six shots - the anthrax course is 4. Unless there is some medic out there to tell me i'm wrong.
 
#7
The regime is as I understand it..

Jab 1
Jab 2 - Three weeks later
Jab 3 - Three week's after Jab 2
Jab 4 - At the 6 Month point

I had all four last year for our "springtime in the sun excursion", had a quite bad reaction to the jabs. Have gently refused the offer this year!!! :wink:

Edited for this point:

As i understand this vaccine still has squaline in it...perhaps bubblehead might ecognise the significance of this?? :?
 
#8
chimera said:
Bubblehead - slightly worried that you are having six shots - the anthrax course is 4. Unless there is some medic out there to tell me i'm wrong.
I think Bubble may be one of our colonial cousins, with the different vaccine, hence the different number of shots.
 
#9
The US series:

Shot one
Shot two: two weeks after one
Shot Three: two weeks after two
Shot four: five months after three
shot five: six months after four
shot six: six months after five.

then you get a yearly booster.
 
#10
Bubble - Apologies - I stand corrected.
 
#12
Not really, if you get the brief..... and have the choice, you can't claim in the unlikely event the vaccine does you damage, and you can't claim when you get anthrax because you were offered the choice of a vaccine but you refused.

Listen to that loud resounding "CLICK... Swish!" of that big brolly going up! :?
 
#13
had the choice at chiwell nearly said yes but had cold so couldnt have it
couldnt be arsed to go back and get it later .Ohh and nbc traing for telic 3
what a complete waste of time only nbc suits seen out here are the jackets we gave the local police .I dont trust the gov over the anthrax jab
 
#14
Injection 1 prior to weekend off, on day of promotion drinks. No drinking, wasted weekend due to reaction - groggy, painful arm. Injection 2 just before... Christmas leave! Cue funky chicken for 5 days, gibbering on the sofa, hullacinating, just able to move on the afternoon Christmas Eve.

You have to sign for each one individually.

You almost die for a week after each one.

You end up having babies with two heads.

Enough said!
 
#15
Ah. The anthrax conspiracy theory limps on.

Tish Tosh

1. It is a vaccine like any other vaccine. It has been used for years and is a licensed product.
2. You have the choice to have it or not which, incidentally, is true of any other vaccine.
3. Like all medicines it has side effects which are worse with some people than others.
4. Like many vaccines it causes local reactions at injection site and may knock you for six for a few hours - this is because the body is recognising a new 'foreign body' and is fighting back. That is a good thing - shows the body's immune system is working.
5. It is a different product to the American one - about which I know very little so cannot comment.

Recent reports are anecdotal and scaremongering. However, anyone who truly believes that the jab has produced an unexpected/unacceptable side effect should consult their MO. There are ongoing studies and any information to assist in those studies I am sure would be welcomed.

Nuff sed.
 
#16
The current anthrax vacine is licenced and has a track record for use on civilians (vets etc). However these studies will no doubt have been perfomed - and the vaccine administered in civilian use - in isolation. That is, nothing else will have been given at the same time.

This cannot be said to be true for soldiers to whom it has been given. I am not aware of any data that shows the vaccine to be safe when administered in conjunction with:

a. Every other vaccine a soldier should have all given at the same time (just ask the TA turned into pincushions at Chilwell if you don't think this happens)

b. NAPS and BAPS tablets

c. The pesticides used to keep down pests when deployed (in Gulf I the MoD used organophosphates, lied about it and were eventually caught out and had to admit it - these should never be used near people)

d. Reduction in immune system performance caused by long term lack of sleep and stress - ie fighting a war

So while I'd agree that the vaccine in isolation is probably OK, the soldier rarely has it in isolation. And that may or may not be OK.

From the reports that come back though something appears to be going on, and I find the bland official line that it can't be the fault of the vaccine unsatisfactory, to say the least. Add to that the reports of the shabby treatment of soldiers who do complain and the reason for the lack of confidence many have in the current system is clear.

And finally, there is no guarantee that the strain of anthrax that would be thrown at us would actually be the one the vaccine protects against - there's more than one you see.

So personally, I'd pass on the vaccination.
 
#17
One_of_the_strange said:
....... and the vaccine administered in civilian use - in isolation. That is, nothing else will have been given at the same time.
OoTS

I take your point about the pincushion effect and agree that jabs given at the same time should be avoided - as with other routine vaccines. Those that have had basic travel vaccines will know that they wil often have to space them out - often depending on whether vaccine is 'live' or otherwise. This is usually just a precautionary measure.

When troops turn up without all the necessary jabs the the risk/benefit ratio has to be considerd. That is - is the risk of getting the disease greater than the risk of doing multi-jabs?

Given that the TA are not as well inoculated as reg troops, they are at higher risk of needing multiple vaccines just to get them up to the start state that most regulars would have. Solution - keep them up to date in the first place! I know that this is a problem with the current policies etc. and that the TA do not have the same access as the regs -but perhaps this is something that should be pushed for. I have tried raising this with various med types in the past but have failed to find any influential types to fight the cause!

NAPS and BAPS
I could write an essay on drug interactions and how difficult they are to predict! However I will do my best to keep things in perspective: The way NAPS works and the way vaccines work are worlds apart therefore the chances of there being problems using them together is infinitesimally small.
As with any drug, however, there are drug interactions that cannot be predicted based on the above. Unfortunately NAPS (remembering it is used in the NHS for treatment of specific nerve disorders) is not as widely used as something like say, ibuprofen, and so data is much more limited.

BAPS are antibiotics that are widely used in civvie street - and would not be held back from someone who had had a vaccine of any sort. I am too tired to work out the risk of BAPS affecting someone who has just had the vaccine.....as I dont believe it was an issue in TELIC I ain't gonna dwell on it but can come back to it if anyone wants something more specific.

Pesticides: I dont know enough to comment at the moment.

Stresses and Strains of war: Chances are the body will be run down due to stress, lack of sleep etc and so more vulnerable to infection - all the more reason to have antibodies in your system to fight specific bugs if they appear!

I do have reservations about being vaccinated whilst on ops. By giving the jab you are challenging the body's immune system and doing this when kn*ckered is hardly the best time. To this end all vaccines should be up to date well before deployment

I know I know! Sadly the reality is a long way off. I do think, however, that troops must take some responsibillity themselves. THe VIP programme was implemented well in advance of TELIC and the uptake was appalling. There are a number of reasons for this - including unnecessary scaremongering! Then TELIC became a reality and suddenly there was a rush for the jabs as people were boarding aircraft!! People need to be better educated and not rely on 'Sun' headlners and rumours. Sadly when the MoD tried to do this (VIP Programme) people jumped to the conclusion they were trying to hide something!

(BTW _ I know some units were ot offered the jab initially due to low R-Status and theat there was nothing they could do to have had the jab earlier)

One_of_the_strange said:
From the reports that come back though something appears to be going on, and I find the bland official line that it can't be the fault of the vaccine unsatisfactory, to say the least. Add to that the reports of the shabby treatment of soldiers who do complain and the reason for the lack of confidence many have in the current system is clear.
OK - I could do another essay here about 'placebo effects' and the psychology of illness. It is well recgnised that you can give someone an inert tablet and tell them it has specific side effects and they will develop a significant number of those side effects - even if the tablet turns out to be sugar!
However - if something IS 'going on' it really does need to be studied. If a soldier is treated shabbily then the very least they should/must do is ensure that their concerns are correctly documented on their medical records.

Bear in mind also that the 'goings on' might NOT necessarily be due to the vaccine! You have aready mentioned the stresses and strains of war - these could have their own series of effects on the body, as could a hundred and one other external factors associated with going to war in a foreign country.

One_of_the_strange said:
And finally, there is no guarantee that the strain of anthrax that would be thrown at us would actually be the one the vaccine protects against - there's more than one you see.
Indeed I do see! Any vaccine you get will have 'strain' limitations on it - but that doesn't render it totally ineffective!! With regards to anthrax the strains 'the enemy' might use are still essentially anthrax and so the antibodies produced will recognise it to a greater or lesser degree.

I can't remember the exact figure for the survival rate from pulmonary anthrax but the figure of 95% mortality is, I believe, in the right region. I had the complete course. I am now covered for any more fights with 'the enemy' and would do the same again even in hindsight.

 
#18
Jezebel said:
I do have reservations about being vaccinated whilst on ops. By giving the jab you are challenging the body's immune system and doing this when kn*ckered is hardly the best time. To this end all vaccines should be up to date well before deployment
I agree. I start OPTAG next week - I have kept my 'normal' jabs up to date but have yet to be offered anthrax. The fact that I'm attached to a medical unit says much about the attitude you refer to later!
 
#19
"Sadly when the MoD tried to do this (VIP Programme) people jumped to the conclusion they were trying to hide something!"

It should be surprising that there was widespread suspicion about the VIP programme, given the track record of the MOD with regard to both duty of care in a multitude of circumstance, including Gulf War Syndrome, and simply telling the truth. I think this suspicion will continue as the MOD has not covered itself with glory over the last 12 months - although an internal comms brief saying that "MOD and the Armed Services were both praised and criticised" in the NAO report appears to be a valiant attempt to spread the blame around!
 
#20
Jezebel - thanks for the information, it gave me a lot to think about.

If the system operated as it should I suspect that I'd think differently. But as every time I've had contact with the defence medical services I've walked away distinctly unimpressed. Bluntly, I do not trust them to get it right.

I'm not having a go at individuals here, I've never come across one who I though was incompetent - but ...

Why do so many TA soldiers medical records get lost (including mine) ?

Why do soldiers get all their vaccinations at the same time in a huge rush ? I missed out at Chilwell (for reasons unknown) and when I got them done at the unit I was posted to I was told that having them all done at once was not allowed ?

For those that require more than one dose it is very rare (unknown in my direct experience) for the second and subsequent doses to be given to TA personnel - so why bother ?

Why do they get permission to get your doctors records on mobilisation then not bother to get them ?

By the way, what is the VIP programme mentioned above ? Or is it something for regulars only ?
 

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