Another triumph for UK policing

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
#2
Were these 'squatters", escapees from Mapperly Madhouse?
You have to weep for a country that has got to the point where five can assault a man's home and the man is the one that is arrested.
 
#3
I have no comment to make about the wisdom of the Police and CPS, this shit seems to happen and despite explanations from resident plod et al common sense appears to be absent in quite a few of these cases, a sign of the times in our 21st century UK I suspect.

However, it is nice to see that amongst our dusty judges some have brains that encompass the real world into the murky abstract world of the law.

Pity the judge is only a Recorder, I would like to see more of his type in red on the High Court bench.
 
#4
Moral of the story, stab the little sh*ts and bury them under the patio. No one would ever know...
 
#5
The cock should never have plead guilty.

The fact he did suggests there's more to this than the Torygraph chooses to publish.

Defending yourself in public after instant arming yourself isn't an offence, hence no offensive weapon charge. He was charged with a public order offence- so he probably went further than just defending himself.

I still don't think he should've been charged though, however, that is a statutory decision for the CPS, the police are evidence gatherers and don't decide charges in cases such as this.

Outrage bus back in the shed for a second- it's unlikely that any force would ONLY arrest the householder if the circumstances were exactly as described.

Lets not forget the telegraph is a Tory paper, supporting the party that I current in massive dispute with the police over their underhand tactics of changing the law to ruin police pensions and bring in compulsory officer redundancy plus pay cuts.

I trust the media about as much as I'd trust Jimmy Saville in a nursery
 
#6
The cock should never have plead guilty.

The fact he did suggests there's more to this than the Torygraph chooses to publish.

Defending yourself in public after instant arming yourself isn't an offence, hence no offensive weapon charge. He was charged with a public order offence- so he probably went further than just defending himself.

I still don't think he should've been charged though, however, that is a statutory decision for the CPS, the police are evidence gatherers and don't decide charges in cases such as this.

Outrage bus back in the shed for a second- it's unlikely that any force would ONLY arrest the householder if the circumstances were exactly as described.

Lets not forget the telegraph is a Tory paper, supporting the party that I current in massive dispute with the police over their underhand tactics of changing the law to ruin police pensions and bring in compulsory officer redundancy plus pay cuts.

I trust the media about as much as I'd trust Jimmy Saville in a nursery
I don't blame the Police, it is clear that they have guidelines that they have to keep to, don't blame the plod blame the policy makers ie mid to senior ranking plod who are out of touch with the real world.

Most rank and file plod on ARRSE say the same thing, guidelines and politically correct, spineless senior ranks.
Not their fault, job to be done and the lower ranks get on with it, just the same as HMF.
Things like this give them a bad press but what the **** are they supposed to do?

The CPS on the other hand do seem to make some strange decisions, perverse some might say.

You might be right about the media angle and I am well beyond any type of outrage because I am now at that age where nothing surprises me that much.

However I am making a presumption that this case did actually happen and the judge actually said what he said.

I am pleased that we do have judges like Mr Recorder Michael Stokes, QC though.
 
#7
I don't blame the Police, it is clear that they have guidelines that they have to keep to, don't blame the plod blame the policy makers ie mid to senior ranking plod who are out of touch with the real world.

Most rank and file plod on ARRSE say the same thing, guidelines and politically correct, spineless senior ranks.
Not their fault, job to be done and the lower ranks get on with it, just the same as HMF.
Things like this give them a bad press but what the **** are they supposed to do?

The CPS on the other hand do seem to make some strange decisions, perverse some might say.

You might be right about the media angle and I am well beyond any type of outrage because I am now at that age where nothing surprises me that much.

However I am making a presumption that this case did actually happen and the judge actually said what he said.

I am pleased that we do have judges like Mr Recorder Michael Stokes, QC though.
Totally agree mate and I believe the judge here made a very wise decision.

But the problem here is over accountability- the coppers on the ground aren't able to say anymore "I'm not nicking him as its clearly bollocks" as if they did and any complaint was made and upheld by IPCC, the force would sack them in a heartbeat.

In these days of never ending enquiries and hindsight, it's not what's right that matters, it's what looks right in the eyes of those in power
 
#8
The CPS involved is Judith Walker, she previously was involved in NOT proceeding against a couple who brassed up intruders with their shotgun claiming people had a right to defend their homes. As mentioned could indicate there is more to this than reported.
 
#9
From reading the article it would appear that he was inside a locked house and the gang were outside. He has picked up a knife and gone outside into the street and then shouted threats of violence towards them. Im not making any excuses for the gang but from the point of view of the police on the day he hasnt acted in a reasonable manner and I would imagine that there is more to this than meets the eye.
 
#10
The cock should never have plead guilty.

The fact he did suggests there's more to this than the Torygraph chooses to publish.

Defending yourself in public after instant arming yourself isn't an offence, hence no offensive weapon charge. He was charged with a public order offence- so he probably went further than just defending himself.

I still don't think he should've been charged though, however, that is a statutory decision for the CPS, the police are evidence gatherers and don't decide charges in cases such as this.

Outrage bus back in the shed for a second- it's unlikely that any force would ONLY arrest the householder if the circumstances were exactly as described.

Lets not forget the telegraph is a Tory paper, supporting the party that I current in massive dispute with the police over their underhand tactics of changing the law to ruin police pensions and bring in compulsory officer redundancy plus pay cuts.

I trust the media about as much as I'd trust Jimmy Saville in a nursery
Surely the basis for your hypothesis should be what the Judge said and not your conspiracy theory about Telegraph motives ?
 
#11
From reading the article it would appear that he was inside a locked house and the gang were outside. He has picked up a knife and gone outside into the street and then shouted threats of violence towards them. Im not making any excuses for the gang but from the point of view of the police on the day he hasnt acted in a reasonable manner and I would imagine that there is more to this than meets the eye.
It is a well used tactic of ASBO types to provoke situations in which the police end up arresting their victims. A Crewe copper told me that one family of noise nuisance, drug pushers, burglars and neighbourhood harassers had called police (over an 18 year period) far more often than their victims.

The police argument on this thread seems to be that if he armed himself for self defence that would be why he was only charged with a public order offence.

So you concede that he was in a self defence situation then ?

Which leads me to think the Judge has something of a point.
 
#12
We can't allow the public to stand up to violent yobboes - it makes the police look bad by comparison. And we can't expect the police to deal with mere 'anti-social behaviour' which is an issue for society. When people have been driven to despair, they will get violent and break the law, then the authorities can intervene.

If the yobs beat the shit out of you they might do something. Or you could have a nervous breakdown and top yourself. Or better still, just move somewhere else; we don't want your sort round here.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
The cock should never have plead guilty.

The fact he did suggests there's more to this than the Torygraph chooses to publish.

Defending yourself in public after instant arming yourself isn't an offence, hence no offensive weapon charge. He was charged with a public order offence- so he probably went further than just defending himself.

I still don't think he should've been charged though, however, that is a statutory decision for the CPS, the police are evidence gatherers and don't decide charges in cases such as this.

Outrage bus back in the shed for a second- it's unlikely that any force would ONLY arrest the householder if the circumstances were exactly as described.

Lets not forget the telegraph is a Tory paper, supporting the party that I current in massive dispute with the police over their underhand tactics of changing the law to ruin police pensions and bring in compulsory officer redundancy plus pay cuts.

I trust the media about as much as I'd trust Jimmy Saville in a nursery
I can understand how waving a knife around in public is a bad idea - my gripe is more to do with the lack of action against the other group - yet again the suspicion arises that the police took the easy collar route and the CPS added insult to injury.
 
#15
It would be a black day for the toerags of Britain if the police were ever to go on strike - there would be nobody to protect them from their victims any more. Many of them would probably have no choice but to shut up shop and become decent human beings for a while.
 
#16
It is a well used tactic of ASBO types to provoke situations in which the police end up arresting their victims. A Crewe copper told me that one family of noise nuisance, drug pushers, burglars and neighbourhood harassers had called police (over an 18 year period) far more often than their victims.

The police argument on this thread seems to be that if he armed himself for self defence that would be why he was only charged with a public order offence.


So you concede that he was in a self defence situation then ?

Which leads me to think the Judge has something of a point.
He was charged with possessing a bladed article in a public place wasnt he ? The point Im making is why has he gone outside into the street with a knife when he was in a locked house in no immediate danger.

Its hard to argue self defence until they come through the front door. Once someone comes into the house with a weapon then yes reasonable to pick up a knife. Its not reasonable to go into the street thereby chasing the attackers and shouting threats towards them.

As I say I dont know the full details and I dont believe much of what I read in papers as I have been party to some incidents that have been reported and found the details to be far wide of the margin of truth in the hunt for a good story and quick headline.
 
#17
The point Im making is why has he gone outside into the street with a knife when he was in a locked house in no immediate danger.
Perhaps he'd been provoked beyond endurance by the antics of these toerags, who could wave weapons in the street, shout abuse, beat on his door and threaten to kill him, whilst the police did **** all about them. Never mind though, perhaps one day the scrotes will do something really terrible, like protesting outside a power station or suggesting that Vodafone pays a bit more tax. Then the coppers will be on them like a ton of bricks.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that the police have been infiltrated by anarchists, who are attempting to bring contempt and scorn on the forces of law and order and thus hasten the collapse of ordered society.
 
#18
Based on the following, I can understand why he was charged.

She added: "The evidence provided showed that the defendant had left his apartment building carrying a large kitchen knife with the intention of making a group of youths who were causing a disturbance leave the vicinity.


"The prosecutor took the view that going out in public with a knife can often inflame a situation, rather than resolve it.

"The defendant pleaded guilty to this offence, on the basis that he had the knife in his hand because he had been cooking and had gone outside out of fear for himself and other residents in the block. This plea was accepted by the prosecution."
That said, I imagine he felt that had already exhausted official channels. The Police (through no fault of the coppers themselves) are useless at dealing with this sort of crime. They can't lock the offenders up, and any involvement short of that only escalates the situation.

In this case, a law allowing squatters to be immediately removed by force would have helped. I believe something along those lines is in the pipeline.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
Perhaps he'd been provoked beyond endurance by the antics of these toerags, who could wave weapons in the street, shout abuse, beat on his door and threaten to kill him, whilst the police did **** all about them. Never mind though, perhaps one day the scrotes will do something really terrible, like protesting outside a power station or suggesting that Vodafone pays a bit more tax. Then the coppers will be on them like a ton of bricks.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that the police have been infiltrated by anarchists, who are attempting to bring contempt and scorn on the forces of law and order and thus hasten the collapse of ordered society.
There is no mention in the report that he called the police at any time. Perhps if he had then they would have responded. But if the cops turn up to a reported incident of a knife wielding bloke in the street and lo! there is a knife wielding bloke in the street they're going to arrest him first and ask questions later. If nothing else, it's probably quite difficult to have a rational conversation with a bloke holding a knife.
 
#20
There is no mention in the report that he called the police at any time. Perhps if he had then they would have responded. But if the cops turn up to a reported incident of a knife wielding bloke in the street and lo! there is a knife wielding bloke in the street they're going to arrest him first and ask questions later. If nothing else, it's probably quite difficult to have a rational conversation with a bloke holding a knife.
You'll get nowhere with your rational hypothesis on what could have happened, we're trying to 1st parade an outrage bus here for god sake.
 

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