Another one.

Should Jack Straw be punished for insulting Islam?

  • yes by stoning

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No he is right

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • a groveling apology will be enough

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Blackburn should become an Islamic state

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#5
I applaud him for having the cojones to say this, he knew what he was doing.

If the veil is causing problems or not is not really the issue, the fact that he is able to question muslim religious dress and practises is.

This will be another test of free speech in the west, so far all have backed down in the face of muslim anger, i do hope jack straw doesn't offer a sniveling apology to muslim lobby groups.
 
#7
Setting aside personal feelings, it's a very odd comment - what's the point? It was obviously not going to create a wave of Muslim female 'bra-burning', and was predictably going to generate the normal response from Muslim extremists...

I think the article itself points out that his constituency is 25% Muslim, so it's not even a vote winner - it just seems a wee bit stupid. Anyone see the cunning master plan I'm missing?
 
#8
Why should I quarantine this? Jack o' Straw makes a very good point I raised myself not a fortnight ago in another thread. It is also seriously gripping British born Muslims hereabouts.

When my Muslim barber and his co-workers look out the window "counting Ninjas" , when the Syrian Muslim mate says she's seen more full veils here than in Damascus, when I see a Somali muslim female cussing a full burka wearer up and down in the car park of Lidl , absolutely shouting at her that "she is one of the stupid people bringing unwelcome attention down on the community.

When the Muslim wife of one of my friends remarks on "Stupid little drones straight from a village in Pesawar married to a man 3 times their age" and when I know it's being done, not as a confirmation of religous belief, but as a protest , and when I know it's being done to a large extent, because hardline Muslim men are telling the missus to get into full regalia to make a bloody point , then I know it is a problem.

So do many British Muslims. These are British Muslims telling me it is causing a rift and problems, not just between "Christians and Muslims" but between Muslims.

Jack will probably get a bloody kicking over this, as he did when he pointed out Israel were bang out of order in Syria. He makes his point, and he is outspoken on issues. I know a lot of people have no time for him, but having studied Jack's speeches etc , I'd like him to run for PM. At least he's not a bloody lap dog.

If anyone has a problem with any of the above , go and talk to British Muslims and Sparkhill and Sparkbrook , and ask them what they think is going on. Or would you all just rather recycle the same tired old rants?

Didn't France have something to say about this?
 
#9
Nibbler said:
Setting aside personal feelings, it's a very odd comment - what's the point? It was obviously not going to create a wave of Muslim female 'bra-burning', and was predictably going to generate the normal response from Muslim extremists...

I think the article itself points out that his constituency is 25% Muslim, so it's not even a vote winner - it just seems a wee bit stupid. Anyone see the cunning master plan I'm missing?
I just think it's a man whos political career in tatters (coming to an end of front bench politics) not giving a flying f**k anymore and saying what he wants and testing the waters of free speach.

It's not a vote winner, but in a bizzare way could end up reviving his political career as the first mainstream politition to stand up to muslim extremists and show some bottle.

I thought it was quite clear today, seeing news 24, that a bit of a backlash is beggining to happen against multiculterism and pandering to muslims.

We have the anger at the muslim copper asking to be moved from his duties, we have the attack(small riot) on the dairy farm of a man trying to start up a muslim school, and now this.

Maybe rather than letting a full on backlash take place jack straw is trying to open an honest debate now before it gets too bad and we do have a race war.
 
#10
just think it's a man whos political career in tatters (coming to an end of front bench politics) not giving a flying f**k anymore and saying what he wants and testing the waters of free speach
No it's not Mark. Go back and read some of Jack's opinions on things. Then see how many times he's taken a slap for them.

He's highlighted a problem, but he's not looked deep enough.
 
#11
I think Jacko makes a very good point, despite what C4 news team were slanting towards (i think they were suggesting that Jacko had made a massive error in saying what he said). I think he said what many may well feel, i know i do. Peoplem not just muslims, who set themselves aside from society through what they wear are obviously going to be sidelined. Emo, Goths, etc. have all been grouped together by what they wear, and each group will obviously be labelled for specific attitudes, or beliefs.

As much as many people may be upset by what was said, i think he makes a good point.

/rant. :)
 
#12
PartTimePongo said:
just think it's a man whos political career in tatters (coming to an end of front bench politics) not giving a flying f**k anymore and saying what he wants and testing the waters of free speach
No it's not Mark. Go back and read some of Jack's opinions on things. Then see how many times he's taken a slap for them.

He's highlighted a problem, but he's not looked deep enough.
Maybe, but why shouldn't we have a debate on this issue without fear?

to me thats what jack straw has done, he knows he will get hounded untill he apologises. and could have very well have commited political suicide.

So i believe it's a genuine concern of his, and hes going to see if he can get away with saying it.
 
#13
Got to agree with Mark1234 here. He's on the slippery slope after being booted from the FCO, and is simply expressing a personal, albeit widely held feeling.

Though I do agree with PTP that he man's speeches are not bad

Err, where does that leave me !!!??? :?

Frankly, I don't care for women in the full rig, this isn't Whahabi Arabia, and from a religious point of view, there is nothing written about a women's face needing to be covered.
 
#14
Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5410472.stm

Straw's veil comments spark anger


Jack Straw, the ex-foreign secretary, has angered Muslim groups by suggesting women who wear veils can make relations between communities more difficult.

The Blackburn MP says the veil is a "visible statement of separation and of difference" and he asks women visiting his surgery to consider removing it.

The Islamic Human Rights Commission said the Commons leader's request was selective discrimination.

But the Muslim Council of Britain said it understood Mr Straw's discomfort.

Muslims make up about a quarter of the population of Blackburn, and Mr Straw said he had carefully considered his remarks.



He wrote in the Lancashire Evening Telegraph that he feared "wearing the full veil was bound to make better, positive relations between the two communities more difficult".

Asking women to consider showing the mouths and noses could lead to true "face-to-face" conversations with constituents, enabling him to "see what the other person means, and not just hear what they say".

He said he made sure he had a female colleague in the room when asking someone to show their mouth and nose - and his constituents had so far always agreed to do so.

'Different views'

Later Mr Straw, who has defended the right for women to wear headscarves, asked BBC Radio Lancashire: "Would those people who do wear the veil think about the implications for community relations?"

The remarks attracted an angry response from some organisations representing Muslims.

It was "astonishing" that Mr Straw chose to "selectively discriminate on the basis of religion", said Massoud Shadjareh, chairman of the Islamic Human Rights Commission.

Halima Hussain, from civil liberties group the Muslim Public Affairs Committee, asked BBC News 24: "Who is Jack Straw to comment on negative symbols within a religion that is not his own?"

Rajnaara Akhtar, who chairs the organisation Protect-Hijab, suggested the "appalling" comments showed "a deep lack of understanding".

Mr Straw was putting women "into a very awkward position by compromising the faith they believe in and that is ill-placed", Council of Lancashire Mosques chairman Hamid Kureshi told BBC Radio Five Live.



And a political rival - Liberal Democrat constitutional affairs spokesman Simon Hughes - questioned whether it was Mr Straw's place to question the way that members of the public dressed.

"I don't think it's the job for somebody who represents the whole community to say to somebody who comes through the door, 'Do you mind if you dress differently in order to talk to me?'," Mr Hughes said.

Oliver Letwin, the Conservatives' policy chief, told the BBC's Question Time programme that if women wanted to wear a veil they should do so. He described it as "dangerous" to suggest they should not be allowed to.

Labour chairman Hazel Blears said: "I do not think it would be the first thing that occurred to me but I think it's perfectly proper."

Dr Daud Abdullah of the Muslim Council of Britain said individual Muslim women could choose to remove part of their veil.

"Even within the Muslim community, the scholars have different views on this.

"Our view is that if it is going to cause discomfort and that can be avoided then it can be done."

Dr Abdullah added, however, that covering hair remained "obligatory" for Muslim women.

Mr Straw was home secretary from 1997 to 2001, and then foreign secretary until 2005, a period which included the build-up to, and invasion of, Iraq.
 
#15
His interview on Radio 4 seemed to suggest that he merely asked them to remove it because he finds it difficult to talk to someone whose face he can't see. They don't have to he is merely requesting. To him it seemed similar to asking someone to take their sunglasses off.

The press have got their knives out for this government, their time is up.
 
#16
eveyuk said:
His interview on Radio 4 seemed to suggest that he merely asked them to remove it because he finds it difficult to talk to someone whose face he can't see. They don't have to he is merely requesting. To him it seemed similar to asking someone to take their sunglasses off.

The press have got their knives out for this government, their time is up.
On Your first point, You are quite right. As to the time for the government being up, much as I would welcome it (and a Lib Dem one in place) I doubt that the press knives will cut that deep. Look at Prescott, he had the whole of the press pack of wolves hunting him down, but he is still in place whilst they have turned to other salacious stories
 
#17
eveyuk said:
His interview on Radio 4 seemed to suggest that he merely asked them to remove it because he finds it difficult to talk to someone whose face he can't see. They don't have to he is merely requesting. To him it seemed similar to asking someone to take their sunglasses off.
I've seen it said on here that the Spams start needing to remove their sunglasses when talking to the Iraqi's, as they'd get better results. Heck, that idea was even in an Army recruitment campaign.

Surely the same principle applies here?
 
#19
Should Jack Straw be punished for insulting Islam?

Take off the veil, says Straw - to immediate anger from Muslims

Jack Straw provoked anger and indignation among broad sections of the Muslim community yesterday after he encouraged Islamic women to stop wearing veils covering their face, saying the practice hindered community relations.

The former home secretary said the full veil - known as a niqab - made "better, positive relations between the two communities more difficult".

He added it was "such a visible statement of separation and of difference".

A likely candidate for the deputy leadership, whose Blackburn constituency has a large Muslim population, Mr Straw said last night that he had chosen his words carefully. "We are able to relate to people we don't know by reading their faces and if you can't see their faces, that provides some separation," he told a local radio station. "Those people who do wear the veil should think about the implications for community relations."


Article in full

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labour/story/0,,1888872,00.html
 
#20
The BBC headline has now changed to the inevitable ;

Straw's veil comments spark anger

:roll:

with the sub headline;

Jack Straw, the ex-foreign secretary, has angered Muslim groups by suggesting women who wear veils can make relations between communities more difficult.

So basically they are angered that jack straw would rather talk to someone not wearing a full ninja suit, and politly asks women if they wouldn't mind showing their face.

Hope he doesn't back down on this, if he does I think free speach is well and truely dead in the UK. Just for once I hope someone doesn't care if he offends "muslim groups" for speaking his mind and having an opinion.
 

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