Another one for jjh

Discussion in 'US' started by Glad_its_all_over, Dec 15, 2010.

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  1. There is something to be said for the benefits of the range of backgrounds that conscription brings i.e. the type who wouldn't normally entertain the idea of becoming a soldier, it is however counter balanced by the negatives of conscription.
  2. Let me read and think about it before replying--I know, not the customary approach of some ARRSERs but it is just my habit. So as not to disappoint, however, I will note your gross error that I highlighted. ;-)
  3. Having read the rant and the comments afterward, I think they all need to be read to get a feel for how this issue would play on the national scene.

    As for my personal view, I think there is a lot of value in national service in terms of giving more of our countrymen and women a "stake" in the venture and in moderating the "elitist" issue Scout-Sniper raises and the other end of the continuum, a lethargic (mentally, physically and patriotically) population that has grown increasingly soft and removed from those who provide the security that allows them to be so self-absorbed.

    I think the downside aspects usually argued (short term does not allow for training time, bad attitudes etc.) are outweighed by the value of spreading the "load" of providing security to the nation. Of course, I would NOT want to see a system like that which existed when I was of draft age where so many inequitable and dishonest "games" were played with eligibility for the draft. Any system in the future would have to really be tightened up and some mechanism to ensure no one could game the system by virtue of their political or other advantages.
  4. Once a Marine, ALWAYS a Marine, right JJH? ;-)

    Sniper-Scout's rant was a little unfocused. I think his main point was that conscription should be reintroduced to ensure we have a broader selection of people from all classes in service and not just rely on an All -Volunteer Force recruited from the lowest class with a cadre of professional officer and SNCOs leading them. He then went off on tangents about his experiences as a recruiter's assistant and offered anecdotal evidence about how the Marines (and presumably the other services) had to lower their recruiting standards to keep the numbers up and were beginning to attract more shitbirds. Well, I hate to tell him this but that's nothing new. GI-GO or garbage in garbage out. My father, who is a WW II veteran, was in command of a chemical warfare company during the war and he had many stories to tell of how he always seemed to get the CAT IIIs and IVs (slow-witted troops) from the repple-depple when he needed new guys to train. This was during conscription too so presumably the people the Army was taking was from a wider selection of classes. Going to a conscription model doesn't guarantee you'll attract a company of Einsteins or Supermen; quite the opposite.

    I do find some merit in a scheme of national service for everybody of all classes. It's better for the country if more people offer their talents to the nation be it in the military or in a Peace Corps environment, and make an investment of blood and sweat in the land they live in. Maybe Obummer could even bring back the old Depression-era CCC or Civilian Conservation Corps. That was a useful organization that gave three hots, a cot, and useful work to do to unemployed youths in our National Forests.

    As one poster said about Sniper-Scout's rant:

    I think his assumptions are colored by his politics. I can see it being uncomfortable to be a liberal in the military. But then again he had balls for trying. But to not vote I think is bullshit.

    Yes, I agree. Not voting was asinine. What statement was he attempting to make? :? He should have cast his vote even if it was going to be for the "only Viet-nam War HEERO" John Kerry, organizer of the "Winter Soldier" farce in the 1970s. He earned the right to vote and being in the military does not change that.


  5. Hell JJ, even I spotted that one. Congratulations on your restraint however! lol
  6. What you said in most aspects.

    In terms of SS's obvious political agenda, and disappointingly his wasteful decision (and I would argue wholly "un-American" in terms of our Constitutional system) not to vote, as I have found with many (if not most) Marines, they tend to the extremes for some strange reason and when they go toward the darkness of progressivism or otherwise align themselves against the "light" of the positive attributes of our Constitutional republic, they can become quite "animated."

    I also note that the elevation of politics and political correctness is not the exclusive province of some USMC veterans like SS, in that US Army and Iraq War veteran (as the media seems strangely very impressed with now ;-) ) Rep. Pat Murphy (Democrat from Pennsylvania) has led the charge for "normalizing" open homosexuality in the forces. ;-)

    Your draft card evoked many "fond" memories of those halcyon days of the draft. I still can recall the somber quiet, otherwise unusual for a uni campus, as students gathered around the bulletin board where class rolls with term grades were posted (that came to be known as the "wailing wall") to see who had fallen below the "C" average required to keep one's student deferment. For those in that category, it was rather amazing to see how quickly they would end up as riflemen in a rice paddy in Vietnam.
  7. I can see Canada once again becoming the holiday destination of choice for young Americans, closely followed by Sweden, i know of one EX American living and working in Holland as a school teacher since 1969/70, he is to me is the lowest of the low, willing to sit back and let his peers make sacrifices for their country, while he continued his education and now enjoys his "freedom" without conscience, surprisingly he has not spoken to me since i expressed my point of view to a class of 16/17 year old students attending a youth exchange visit. (Germany,Holland ,UK.) The concensus among the students male and female was that they would not have " done a runner " to avoid the draft, instead would have chosen if available to serve in a non military capacity, interesting from the youth of today!
  8. Caecilius

    Caecilius LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    There were even more patriotic ways to avoid the draft. One guy I know enlisted in the USAF to guarantee that he wouldn't have to serve in the Army or the USMC.
  9. As many of our latter day politicians (of both parties) and others too "elite" to have to serve, much less risk getting killed in combat, have also demonstrated, there were myriad devices to avoid hazardous service that too often involved having the right "connections."