Another help with an old family picture thread

#1
9EEAA454-4740-4B54-AE3B-FD8F9B5527EE.jpeg

Your assistance and advice would be greatly appreciated with this photograph of my Great Grandfather. It is dated on the reverse ‘1918’. I know he served in the Army in the First World War but not the Regiment he was with. I have tried the National Archive but without result. He joined the Territorial Army in 1939 and served until late 1945.
I have done an awful lot of googling over the last few days without getting anything specific on what i’m after.
My questions are in relation to the uniform he is wearing. The tunic seems to be standard 1902 design. However he is wearing a lanyard. Would this denote anything specific such as mounted trade or as I suspect could any Regiment wear one if it was in their dress regs. There are no shoulder titles or collet dogs, is that significant? That takes me onto his trousers. Having enlarged the picture and viewed it through a magnifying glass I can clearly see just below his left knee on the outer side a couple of lace holes and laces. These don’t seem to be standard trousers, breeches, unfortunately the photograph doesn’t extend to his lower leg to show if he is wearing putters or boots. Does anyone have any information on the trousers.
Lastly in reference to the badges on the lower left sleeve. They are from the bottom up crossed rifles which are I believe a skill at arms award, a five pointed star which I believe denotes best shot in company/Squadron. And finally what appears to be a small flaming grenade. I can find reference to a similar badge being worn on the upper sleeves in various colours but not on the lower sleeve. The first 2 badges look like cloth the grenade may be metal but it’s not certain. His local infantry regiment would have been The Cambridg Regiment who were Territorial Force. The uniform doesn’t appear to be for them. He was born 1889 so was just short of 20 if the picture was taken in 1918.
A lot of questions so any advice would be appreciated whilst other research continues.
Bee Companeeee
 
#3
You've tried an "Ancestry" or similar check for Medal Index Card and other WWI era records?
The Cambridgeshire's had close links to the Suffolk Regiment and the 11th Suffolk's were titled "Cambridgeshire".
 
#6
You've tried an "Ancestry" or similar check for Medal Index Card and other WWI era records?
The Cambridgeshire's had close links to the Suffolk Regiment and the 11th Suffolk's were titled "Cambridgeshire".
Yes I tried that but apparently not all have survived. I do recall my uncle has his medals which were The Great War and Victory Medals, 1939-45 War Medal, Defence Medal and a Territorial Medal. My Great Grandfather died in 1982 and I can remember it was quite a big thing for him that he had never received his WW2 medals until my Uncle applied for them and got them to him in the late 70’s
 
#7
The pointed star denotes efficiency in TF service. Snake belt also points to great war period
The TF efficiency star would be worn lower right sleeve, a star for distance judging was worn lower left but only by regular army.

Edit - I had read that circa WWI the Grenadier Guards and Fusilier regiment pioneers wore the grenade lower left sleeve, but I cant find a reference to it.
It seems unlikely that GG and Fusilier pioneers would've worn the grenade without crossed axes worn beneath.
Interesting tailoring to the collar, more of a post war thing although the tunic hasn't been smartened up as in altered for a closer fit.
 
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#8
Yes I tried that but apparently not all have survived. I do recall my uncle has his medals which were The Great War and Victory Medals, 1939-45 War Medal, Defence Medal and a Territorial Medal. My Great Grandfather died in 1982 and I can remember it was quite a big thing for him that he had never received his WW2 medals until my Uncle applied for them and got them to him in the late 70’s
The MIC "should" be there, although there are hiccups and some are missing.
 
#10
The TF efficiency star would be worn lower right sleeve, a star for distance judging was worn lower left but only by regular army.

Edit - I had read that circa WWI the Grenadier Guards and Fusilier regiment pioneers wore the grenade lower left sleeve, but I cant find a reference to it.
It seems unlikely that GG and Fusilier pioneers would've worn the grenade without crossed axes worn beneath.
Interesting tailoring to the collar, more of a post war thing although the tunic hasn't been smartened up as in altered for a closer fit.
Try david Langleys book if you can find one.
 
#11
A book check (British Army Proficiency Badge by D Edwards and D Langley) shows crossed rifles with star above worn on lower left as being (in 1909) best shot in each squadron, company or band of cavalry, RE, or infantry.
In 1926 it was for the best combined rifle and light automatic shot in a squadron or company.
 
#12
Try david Langleys book if you can find one.
I had a riffle through the book but I couldn't find reference to the grenade over crossed rifles badge combo worn lower left.
I have a note somewhere about it.

A message to David Langley ('Grumpy' on the British and Commonwealth Badge Forum and I think also on Gentlemans Military Interest Club) may be productive.
 
#13
Thanks for all the information. It seems one has to have a real passion for this sort of thing to understand all the complexities. No wonder we’ve pretty much done away with all these badges and awards. Para wings seem to create enough controversy on their own
 
#16
The TF efficiency star would be worn lower right sleeve, a star for distance judging was worn lower left but only by regular army.

Edit - I had read that circa WWI the Grenadier Guards and Fusilier regiment pioneers wore the grenade lower left sleeve, but I cant find a reference to it.
It seems unlikely that GG and Fusilier pioneers would've worn the grenade without crossed axes worn beneath.
Interesting tailoring to the collar, more of a post war thing although the tunic hasn't been smartened up as in altered for a closer fit.
I noticed that about the collar it’s unlike the images normally available so I wondered if it was relevant but just assumed it was something he had done to smarten it up a bit like putting a boot lace around the collar of the old woolly pulley so you could tighten it up
 
#17
I noticed that about the collar it’s unlike the images normally available so I wondered if it was relevant but just assumed it was something he had done to smarten it up a bit like putting a boot lace around the collar of the old woolly pulley so you could tighten it up
I think you're right re. the bootlace type modification, the job doesn't look to be professionally done, more a personal affectation,
Post WWI the uniform was smartened up, the specs. were altered for a smarter, better fit, and existing stocks were modified by regimental tailors to a set pattern to conform with the smarter look.
Collar styles varied with the regiment.
 
#18
Would it be a grenade or a flaming bomb. I think there was a distinction twixt RA and RE in that one had seven flame bits and the other had nine. But it's a minefield of info/misinfo :cool:
 
#19
The MIC "should" be there, although there are hiccups and some are missing.
Many were destroyed by fire (as I'm sure you are aware)-however, the Medal Rolls exist and, again, are available through Ancestry and other sources.

@Bee Companeeee - if you have his full name (please don't let it be John Smith!), post it or PM it and I'll have a butcher's.
 
#20
A Google search found this thread on The Great War Forum

invisionzone.com/forums/topic/182649-grenade-insignia-sgt-7th-ox-bucks-combination-id/
A couple of quotes re the grenade worn lower left sleeve

Post 15
".......there was a further use of the brass grenade above crossed rifles on the lower left arm - this I'll leave as a teaser......."

Post 23

"There are only limited cases for Infantry to wear Grenade badges--Prior to the war, and during, the Grenade was also worn by Grenadier Guards and Fusilier Regiment pioneers. Worn normally on lower left sleeve, but presumably moved to the Chevron with an NCO (the 1914 Regs are not specific in this case)."

I'm taking the comment re the grenade being "Worn normally on lower left sleeve" to mean worn above crossed axes rather than on its own, and the OPs photo shows it being worn above crossed rifles and star.
 

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