Another critic of Russian Government commits suicide

#2
Being a critic of the Russian Government is clearly even more depressing than being a trainee at Deepcut.

B-T
 
#3
Should have got a nice safe job.

Something to do with WMD perhaps.
 
#4
RIP.

Never heard about the journalist before his tragic death. Btw, he was a retired colonel and served in strategic nuclear missile forces. My brother lt.-colonel is serving here now.
 
#5
I am assured by one who has professional knowledge on these matters that the 5th floor is debateable on produceing a gaurenteed fatality. 6th floor and landing on concreate is recommended minimum.
John, condo on 8th floor now planning small bungalow purchase.
RIP.
 
#6
Safronov had a scoop last year about the failure of Bulava ballistic missile tests. He was also preparing a report on Russian arms sales to the Middle East

From Kommersant:

"Suddenly we heard a thud, like snow falling off the rooftop. It was almost empty in the courtyard, and we immediately noticed a man lying directly in front of the canopy over the second entranceway to building No 9. He was lying on his stomach, and it seemed to us that he tried to get up, but couldn't." Noticing the open window on the stairway between the fourth and fifth floors and the fact that the man's shoes had come off and his jacket and sweater were pulled up to his armpits, the girls called an ambulance. Their call was not accepted, however. "We cannot collect all the drunks in Moscow on Friday night," they were told, along with the advice to call back in half an hour if he was still there. He did not go away. On the contrary, he stopped moving altogether.
 
#8
Probably unrelated, but now two American women come down with thallium poisoning.

Putin's Russia is getting curioser and curioser.
 
#9
Virgil said:
Probably unrelated, but now two American women come down with thallium poisoning.

Putin's Russia is getting curioser and curioser.
Also recently two Russian women were killed in Tailand.
 
#11
KGB_resident said:
Virgil said:
Probably unrelated, but now two American women come down with thallium poisoning.

Putin's Russia is getting curioser and curioser.
Also recently two Russian women were killed in Tailand.
Be careful Sergei, no one is safe!

Critic of the K.G.B. Is Shot and Wounded Outside His Home

WASHINGTON, March 3 — A few hours after meeting a former K.G.B. general outside a spy museum here, an outspoken critic of the Kremlin became engulfed in the kind of intrigue he studies when he was shot Thursday outside his suburban Maryland home.

The shooting occurred four days after the critic, Paul M. Joyal, warned on “Dateline NBC,” the television news magazine, that a “message has been communicated to anyone who wants to speak out against the Kremlin: ‘If you do, no matter who you are, where you are, we will find you and we will silence you in the most horrible way possible.” Mr. Joyal was speaking about the poisoning of Alexander V. Litvinenko, a K.G.B. defector, who was poisoned last fall in London.
...
 
#12
Virgil said:
KGB_resident said:
Virgil said:
Probably unrelated, but now two American women come down with thallium poisoning.

Putin's Russia is getting curioser and curioser.
Also recently two Russian women were killed in Tailand.
Be careful Sergei, no one is safe!

Critic of the K.G.B. Is Shot and Wounded Outside His Home

WASHINGTON, March 3 — A few hours after meeting a former K.G.B. general outside a spy museum here, an outspoken critic of the Kremlin became engulfed in the kind of intrigue he studies when he was shot Thursday outside his suburban Maryland home.

The shooting occurred four days after the critic, Paul M. Joyal, warned on “Dateline NBC,” the television news magazine, that a “message has been communicated to anyone who wants to speak out against the Kremlin: ‘If you do, no matter who you are, where you are, we will find you and we will silence you in the most horrible way possible.” Mr. Joyal was speaking about the poisoning of Alexander V. Litvinenko, a K.G.B. defector, who was poisoned last fall in London.
...
May I continue your quote Virgil

A spokesman for the Prince George’s County police department declined to say whether the police viewed the shooting as a reprisal or a coincidence. The spokesman, Cpl Clinton Copeland, said the police had “a vague description of two black males” fleeing the scene.

Federal authorities were leaning toward the view that Mr. Joyal was the victim of a street crime unrelated to his opinions of Russia, said a federal law enforcement official.
 
#13
I was already under the impression that actually being a critic of the Russian Government was committing suicide.
 
#14
smartascarrots said:
I was already under the impression that actually being a critic of the Russian Government was committing suicide.
Ask yourself, how have you get this impression? The only source of information about the situation in Russia for you is Western mass-media. Haven't you the impression that you are being manipulated?

Here are two BBC articles. Both are about the same event. One in English and another one in Russian.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6426043.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/russian/russia/newsid_6422000/6422305.stm

"Он не был критиком власти"

Заместитель главного редактора "Коммерсанта" решительно отмел политические мотивы в деле о гибели своего коллеги.

"Больше всего хотелось бы избежать политизации этого вопроса. Не был он никаким критиком власти. Он не писал на политические темы. У нас нет ни малейших оснований утверждать, что тут замешана какая-то политика. Нет здесь никакой политики", - настойчиво повторял он в интервью Би-би-си.
You would not find this in the English version

"He was not a critic of the authorities"

Deputy editor of Kommersant newspaper decisively rejected political motives in the death of his colleague.

"This case should not be regarded as political. He was not a critic of authorities. He didn't write on political themes. We haven't any grounds to say that politics was involved. No politics" - he insisted in the interview with BBC
Indeed the died journalist never wrote about Chechnya, about Russian political parties, elections. He was merely a military expert and wrote on related subjects.

But why BBC have quoted the deputy editor in Russian variant of the articled and haven't done it in the English version?

The answer is a simple one - to create 'right' impressions, more right to implement them.

In Russian variant BBC had to quote the deputy editor because Russian readers are well aware about the interview from TV.

By contrast a typical Western consumer of informational 'goods' forms own opinions directly from Western mass-media and is voided (with rare exceptions) any alternative.
 
#15
KGB_resident said:
smartascarrots said:
I was already under the impression that actually being a critic of the Russian Government was committing suicide.
Ask yourself, how have you get this impression? The only source of information about the situation in Russia for you is Western mass-media. Haven't you the impression that you are being manipulated?

Here are two BBC articles. Both are about the same event. One in English and another one in Russian.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6426043.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/russian/russia/newsid_6422000/6422305.stm

"Он не был критиком власти"

Заместитель главного редактора "Коммерсанта" решительно отмел политические мотивы в деле о гибели своего коллеги.

"Больше всего хотелось бы избежать политизации этого вопроса. Не был он никаким критиком власти. Он не писал на политические темы. У нас нет ни малейших оснований утверждать, что тут замешана какая-то политика. Нет здесь никакой политики", - настойчиво повторял он в интервью Би-би-си.
You would not find this in the English version

"He was not a critic of the authorities"

Deputy editor of Kommersant newspaper decisively rejected political motives in the death of his colleague.

"This case should not be regarded as political. He was not a critic of authorities. He didn't write on political themes. We haven't any grounds to say that politics was involved. No politics" - he insisted in the interview with BBC
Indeed the died journalist never wrote about Chechnya, about Russian political parties, elections. He was merely a military expert and wrote on related subjects.

But why BBC have quoted the deputy editor in Russian variant of the articled and haven't done it in the English version?

The answer is a simple one - to create 'right' impressions, more right to implement them.

In Russian variant BBC had to quote the deputy editor because Russian readers are well aware about the interview from TV.

By contrast a typical Western consumer of informational 'goods' forms own opinions directly from Western mass-media and is voided (with rare exceptions) any alternative.
Why then is the same man quoted in his own newspaper as follows?

...Kommersant deputy editor-in-chief Bulavinov noted that Safronov's death may have been violent and related to his professional activities. “We cannot exclude that possibility, even though there is no direct evidence,” he said. The newspaper is aware of only one sensitive topic that Safronov was working on. Safronov stated that he would check information that he had received on possible new deliveries of Russian weapons to the Middle East while at the IDEX 2007 arms exhibition in the United Arab Emirates. That exhibition opened February 17. Safronov was interested in the sale of Su-30 fighter jets to Syria and S-300V missiles to Iran. He had information that those deals would be concluded through Belarus, in order for Moscow to avoid accusations in the West of selling weapons to pariah states. Safronov called the editorial office from Abu Dhabi to say that he had found confirmation of his facts...

So, it may not be "politics" in the pure sense, but perhaps arms exports by state companies or his less than enthusiastic reporting about the shiny new Bulava missiles....

As for two BBC departments being able to conspire to produce two deliberately different angles on a story, you are giving them far too much credit.

P.S. Sergey. you aren't one of this lot are you?

(Russian)
http://www.gulag.ipvnews.org/article20060916_01.php
(English) http://lrtranslations.blogspot.com/2007/02/commissars-of-internet.html
 
#16
First of all, thank you for a replay Bearwoods. I like it.

bearwoods said:
KGB_resident said:
smartascarrots said:
I was already under the impression that actually being a critic of the Russian Government was committing suicide.
Ask yourself, how have you get this impression? The only source of information about the situation in Russia for you is Western mass-media. Haven't you the impression that you are being manipulated?

Here are two BBC articles. Both are about the same event. One in English and another one in Russian.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6426043.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/russian/russia/newsid_6422000/6422305.stm

"Он не был критиком власти"

Заместитель главного редактора "Коммерсанта" решительно отмел политические мотивы в деле о гибели своего коллеги.

"Больше всего хотелось бы избежать политизации этого вопроса. Не был он никаким критиком власти. Он не писал на политические темы. У нас нет ни малейших оснований утверждать, что тут замешана какая-то политика. Нет здесь никакой политики", - настойчиво повторял он в интервью Би-би-си.
You would not find this in the English version

"He was not a critic of the authorities"

Deputy editor of Kommersant newspaper decisively rejected political motives in the death of his colleague.

"This case should not be regarded as political. He was not a critic of authorities. He didn't write on political themes. We haven't any grounds to say that politics was involved. No politics" - he insisted in the interview with BBC
Indeed the died journalist never wrote about Chechnya, about Russian political parties, elections. He was merely a military expert and wrote on related subjects.

But why BBC have quoted the deputy editor in Russian variant of the articled and haven't done it in the English version?

The answer is a simple one - to create 'right' impressions, more right to implement them.

In Russian variant BBC had to quote the deputy editor because Russian readers are well aware about the interview from TV.

By contrast a typical Western consumer of informational 'goods' forms own opinions directly from Western mass-media and is voided (with rare exceptions) any alternative.
Why then is the same man quoted in his own newspaper as follows?

...Kommersant deputy editor-in-chief Bulavinov noted that Safronov's death may have been violent and related to his professional activities. “We cannot exclude that possibility, even though there is no direct evidence,” he said.
And nobody can exclude.

bearwoods said:
The newspaper is aware of only one sensitive topic that Safronov was working on. Safronov stated that he would check information that he had received on possible new deliveries of Russian weapons to the Middle East while at the IDEX 2007 arms exhibition in the United Arab Emirates. That exhibition opened February 17. Safronov was interested in the sale of Su-30 fighter jets to Syria and S-300V missiles to Iran. He had information that those deals would be concluded through Belarus, in order for Moscow to avoid accusations in the West of selling weapons to pariah states.
Russia always sold sophisticated weapons to Syria and to Iran. There were accusations from the West that were simply ignored. Relations between Putin and Belosussian president Lukashenko now are not in the best state. So there are no reasons to prepare such a deal. If Russia decides that it is in her interests then any weapons (not forbiddent by international treaties) would be sold to any country that is not under sanctions approved by UNSC resolution.

bearwoods said:
Safronov called the editorial office from Abu Dhabi to say that he had found confirmation of his facts...

So, it may not be "politics" in the pure sense, but perhaps arms exports by state companies or his less than enthusiastic reporting about the shiny new Bulava missiles....
Yes, I agree his reports about Bulava missiles were (softly speaking) unwanted by some high ranked decision-makers in the Russian MoD. Personally I have an impression that the whole Bulava project has unremovable defect and it should be reviewed, maybe even closed.

Anyway, I don't believe that it is a sufficient cause to kill.

bearwoods said:
As for two BBC departments being able to conspire to produce two deliberately different angles on a story, you are giving them far too much credit.
I used BBC only as an example. Look at any main-stream Western news-source and you will find an expression like 'Critic of Kremlin'. But it is simply not true.

Oh no. Salaries there are too low. I know it because my wife (a former KGB officer) met few years ago with her friends that still are serving in FSB.
 
#17
That's right, Sergey - it means, "Sort of like iron". :eye:
 
#18
KGB_resident said:
Virgil said:
KGB_resident said:
Virgil said:
Probably unrelated, but now two American women come down with thallium poisoning.

Putin's Russia is getting curioser and curioser.
Also recently two Russian women were killed in Tailand.
Be careful Sergei, no one is safe!...
May I continue your quote Virgil..
I was aware of that, it was intended to be humor Sergei. :winkrazz:
 
#19
"Also recently two Russian women were killed in Tailand. "

Sergey its Thighland. Seems one lady took up with the Rooshin husband of a Thigh and the local wife hired a hitman.

john
Dangerous things Thighs.
 
#20
Virgil said:
I was aware of that, it was intended to be humor Sergei. :winkrazz:
Vigil be carefull, especially if you would see a black BMW 530 with a combination '666' on a plate. :thumright:
 

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