Another American ally declares state of emergency

#1
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071107/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_opposition;_ylt=ArT1CtIqzUgKciEqpEROdRFw24cA

TBILISI, Georgia - U.S.-allied President Mikhail Saakashvili declared a state of emergency Wednesday in the capital of Georgia, where six days of demonstrations have fueled a worsening crisis.

Saakashvili has blamed Russia for fomenting the unrest in the former Soviet nation. His prime minister, Zurab Nogaideli, said in a televised statement that there had been an effort to overthrow the pro-Western government.
...
Riot police earlier used tear gas and water cannons to break up demonstrations, before bursting into the offices of a pro-opposition television station that went off the air moments later.

Georgia's Imedi television station describes itself as independent but is seen as a key opposition mouthpiece by authorities. It has carried statements by opposition leaders and broadcast footage of police breaking up protests Wednesday. More than 100 people were hospitalized after police drove opposition demonstrators from two protests in the capital, Tbilisi. Police used truncheons on some protesters and rubber bullets at one demonstration.
So both beacons of democracy - Musharraf and Saakashvili (likely inspired from Washigton) use the same methods.
 
#2
KGB_resident said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071107/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_opposition;_ylt=ArT1CtIqzUgKciEqpEROdRFw24cA

TBILISI, Georgia - U.S.-allied President Mikhail Saakashvili declared a state of emergency Wednesday in the capital of Georgia, where six days of demonstrations have fueled a worsening crisis.

Saakashvili has blamed Russia for fomenting the unrest in the former Soviet nation. His prime minister, Zurab Nogaideli, said in a televised statement that there had been an effort to overthrow the pro-Western government.
...
Riot police earlier used tear gas and water cannons to break up demonstrations, before bursting into the offices of a pro-opposition television station that went off the air moments later.

Georgia's Imedi television station describes itself as independent but is seen as a key opposition mouthpiece by authorities. It has carried statements by opposition leaders and broadcast footage of police breaking up protests Wednesday. More than 100 people were hospitalized after police drove opposition demonstrators from two protests in the capital, Tbilisi. Police used truncheons on some protesters and rubber bullets at one demonstration.
So both beacons of democracy - Musharraf and Saakashvili (likely inspired from Washigton) use the same methods.

I think likely you are very wrong. I think they're the best they could work with. Perhaps we could lower our standards and get into bed with these guys like your buddy putin.



So when's vlad getting his turban? He should get a "blue" one so that the Nostradamus predictions have effect.

Sounds like he wants to restore the old USSR to it's former "glory", more like start WWIII.
 
#3
Sorry, what's your point? That the US us undemocratic? that anyone that is an ally of the US is undemocratic?
 
#5
mr.fawlty said:
Looks like the cold war has turned hot on arrse.
Nah, Sergeys our friendly local counter intelligence poster who delights in attempting to create gaps between US/Israel/British ties.
 
#6
wehappyfew said:
Sorry, what's your point? That the US us undemocratic?
That the USA selectively support dictators.

wehappyfew said:
... that anyone that is an ally of the US is undemocratic?
The UK is American ally, so not any but some (though there are speculations about Blair/Brown 'dictatorship').

What would be American reaction to events in Georgia? Likely the same as in the case with Musharraf - silence.

 
#7
Last time I looked there were a lot of dictators, and lots more non-democracies, around the world. Some are supported by the US and some are not. It would seem that if the US gets involved in Georgia (or reacts to events there) that there would be a few people in your part of the world (some are even dictators) who might complain. What do you want the US to do?
 
#8
wehappyfew said:
Last time I looked there were a lot of dictators, and lots more non-democracies, around the world. Some are supported by the US and some are not. It would seem that if the US gets involved in Georgia (or reacts to events there) that there would be a few people in your part of the world (some are even dictators) who might complain. What do you want the US to do?
First of all, proud American people has right to have any government it likes. So I don't want anything from highly esteemed mr.Bush. However it would be logical to expect that such a prominent defender of democracy and human rights would not use double standards.
 
#11
KGB_resident said:
wehappyfew said:
Sorry, what's your point? That the US us undemocratic?
That the USA selectively support dictators.

wehappyfew said:
... that anyone that is an ally of the US is undemocratic?
The UK is American ally, so not any but some (though there are speculations about Blair/Brown 'dictatorship').

What would be American reaction to events in Georgia? Likely the same as in the case with Musharraf - silence.
KGB_resident said:
wehappyfew said:
Sorry, what's your point? That the US us undemocratic?
That the USA selectively support dictators.

wehappyfew said:
... that anyone that is an ally of the US is undemocratic?
The UK is American ally, so not any but some (though there are speculations about Blair/Brown 'dictatorship').

What would be American reaction to events in Georgia? Likely the same as in the case with Musharraf - silence.
Hi, Sergey, how is the astroturfing business these days? Why is breaking up a protest rally and declaring a state of emergency necessarily "undemocratic" and a sign of "dictatorship".

These protests are openly financed by a billionaire based in London, Patarkatsishvili, who got fed up when the Georgian government refused to sell him everything they were privatizing. Their poster-boy is a former defence minister, Okruashvili, who was roundly condemned as corrupt only a year ago by the very same opposition parties who now support him.

Interestingly, Okruashvili, who has recently been hanging around in London, was apparently refused a British visa last week and so ended up in Munich.

The ten so-called opposition parties only formed their coalition in September when Patarkatsishvili opened his chequebook and Okruashvili agreed to be their leader (as he was considerably more popular than any of the opposition leaders because of his war-mongering rhetoric as defence minister).

As for Russia, how could they fail to try to exploit a situation that could remove their nemesis, Saakashvili? The government has presented evidence of links between some opposition leaders and Russian diplomats/spies. And Russia has form for this in Georgia.

So, if Saakashvili really does believe that Russia and a disgruntled rich man are trying to destablize the country, why should he not take action?

Don't forget both he and the parliament were democratically elected, their terms have yet to expire, and the constitution was even amended to shorten Saakashvili's term. So why is the opposition's main demand for elections to be moved from autumn 2008 to April 2008. Is it because they know that their coalition won't last and they want to cash in while Patarkatsishvili is still handing out the cash?
 
#12
ghost_us said:
mr.fawlty said:
Looks like the cold war has turned hot on arrse.
Nah, Sergeys our friendly local counter intelligence poster who delights in attempting to create gaps between US/Israel/British ties.
I know American ties have stripes that go on the opposite diagonal - What do Israeli ones look like ? Just blue and white stripes ?
 
#13
Well Estonia should have been a bit more sensitive, and then the case model for instigating riots by Russian activists wouldn't have been revisited.

Eagerness to display all these chaps as immature and unfit for European membership is to be blunt entirely counter productive to Russian interests in the short, medium, and long term.

I guess what's going to happen in May 2008, is that the Moscow riots will be slightly less calm, given that precedence has been set. There will be hosing, and beatings, and tear gassings, and the Kremlin will say, "Well if it's democratic enough for them, it's democratic enough for us".

What it requires though is for instigators to be planted throughout the crowd. They could suggest anyone they like was responsible, whoever happened to be flavour of the month. Wouldn't matter whether or not some were actually sent, it'll happen like that anyway!!

Just shoe all your activists now Russia, before they have a chance to gather and have done with it, I won't mind... ;)
 
#14
ghost_us said:
KGB_resident said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071107/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_opposition;_ylt=ArT1CtIqzUgKciEqpEROdRFw24cA

TBILISI, Georgia - U.S.-allied President Mikhail Saakashvili declared a state of emergency Wednesday in the capital of Georgia, where six days of demonstrations have fueled a worsening crisis.

Saakashvili has blamed Russia for fomenting the unrest in the former Soviet nation. His prime minister, Zurab Nogaideli, said in a televised statement that there had been an effort to overthrow the pro-Western government.
...
Riot police earlier used tear gas and water cannons to break up demonstrations, before bursting into the offices of a pro-opposition television station that went off the air moments later.

Georgia's Imedi television station describes itself as independent but is seen as a key opposition mouthpiece by authorities. It has carried statements by opposition leaders and broadcast footage of police breaking up protests Wednesday. More than 100 people were hospitalized after police drove opposition demonstrators from two protests in the capital, Tbilisi. Police used truncheons on some protesters and rubber bullets at one demonstration.
So both beacons of democracy - Musharraf and Saakashvili (likely inspired from Washigton) use the same methods.

I think likely you are very wrong. I think they're the best they could work with. Perhaps we could lower our standards and get into bed with these guys like your buddy putin.



So when's vlad getting his turban? He should get a "blue" one so that the Nostradamus predictions have effect.

Sounds like he wants to restore the old USSR to it's former "glory", more like start WWIII.
Now come on Ghost - US, World War doesn't actually kick off until old blighty declares it, that's Queens Regs laddie ;)
 
#15
bearstillinthewoods said:
Hi, Sergey, how is the astroturfing business these days?
A lot of turf was discovered on some asteroids.

bearstillinthewoods said:
Why is breaking up a protest rally and declaring a state of emergency necessarily "undemocratic" and a sign of "dictatorship".
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/world/europe/08georgia.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin

riot police officers used tear gas, rubber bullets and water cannon to clear thousands of demonstrators from the streets. The order immediately closed two television stations and banned public assembly in the capital, and would be in effect for at least 48 hours, a senior government official said by telephone.

The country’s principal opposition news outlet, Imedi TV, went off the air as a special forces unit, armed and wearing dark masks, entered the station’s offices. By then at least 365 people had reported to hospitals to treat their injuries, the country’s health ministry said.
And note that the demonstration didn't acttack police, didn't violate any law.

I fancy if such event would happen in London how it would be called.

bearstillinthewoods said:
These protests are openly financed by a billionaire based in London, Patarkatsishvili...
Btw, he is wanted in Russia. Why not to extradict him?

bearstillinthewoods said:
..., who got fed up when the Georgian government refused to sell him everything they were privatizing. Their poster-boy is a former defence minister, Okruashvili, who was roundly condemned as corrupt only a year ago by the very same opposition parties who now support him.
It seems to me that all Georgian politicians are corruptioners.

bearstillinthewoods said:
Interestingly, Okruashvili, who has recently been hanging around in London, was apparently refused a British visa last week and so ended up in Munich.

The ten so-called opposition parties only formed their coalition in September when Patarkatsishvili opened his chequebook and Okruashvili agreed to be their leader (as he was considerably more popular than any of the opposition leaders because of his war-mongering rhetoric as defence minister).
Maybe tens thousands of protesters were paid as well?

bearstillinthewoods said:
As for Russia, how could they fail to try to exploit a situation that could remove their nemesis, Saakashvili? The government has presented evidence of links between some opposition leaders and Russian diplomats/spies. And Russia has form for this in Georgia.
Evidence? Ha-ha-ha. Maybe Russia fund Gergian opposition?

bearstillinthewoods said:
So, if Saakashvili really does believe that Russia and a disgruntled rich man are trying to destablize the country, why should he not take action?
By using tear gas, rubber bullets, by closing TV. Why independent TV has been closed?

bearstillinthewoods said:
Don't forget both he and the parliament were democratically elected, their terms have yet to expire, and the constitution was even amended to shorten Saakashvili's term. So why is the opposition's main demand for elections to be moved from autumn 2008 to April 2008.
I suppose because namely in April 2008 Georgian parliament must be reelected according to the constitution.

bearstillinthewoods said:
Is it because they know that their coalition won't last and they want to cash in while Patarkatsishvili is still handing out the cash?
Maybe it is true but why to close independent TV?
 
#16
So is your point that their democracy is shakier than ours (so why are we buddies?), or that it's almost as shaky as yours (so why aren't we buddies?)?

:?
 
#17
Rumpelstiltskin said:
So is your point that their democracy is shakier than ours (so why are we buddies?), or that it's almost as shaky as yours (so why aren't we buddies?)?

:?
No doubt that we will be buddies later or sooner. The UK and Russia as well are owned by big money (sometimes money-bags are the same persons in both cases). As for difference between British and Russian democracy then then just imagine the same woman with and without makeup.
 
#18
KGB_resident said:
Rumpelstiltskin said:
So is your point that their democracy is shakier than ours (so why are we buddies?), or that it's almost as shaky as yours (so why aren't we buddies?)?

:?
No doubt that we will be buddies later or sooner. The UK and Russia as well are owned by big money (sometimes money-bags are the same persons in both cases). As for difference between British and Russian democracy then then just imagine the same woman with and without makeup.
I just read an article that the current governments biggest opposition is now the communist party in Russia. Sergey do you find this to be the case?

Seems like the young folks they were interviewing were inclined that way.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#19
ghost_us said:


So when's vlad getting his turban? He should get a "blue" one so that the Nostradamus predictions have effect.

Is Vlad house of Lorraine???? If not I can't see he'll be wearing Jerusalem blue....now back to reading the thread...
 
#20
KGB_resident said:
bearstillinthewoods said:
Hi, Sergey, how is the astroturfing business these days?
A lot of turf was discovered on some asteroids.

bearstillinthewoods said:
Why is breaking up a protest rally and declaring a state of emergency necessarily "undemocratic" and a sign of "dictatorship".
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/world/europe/08georgia.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin

riot police officers used tear gas, rubber bullets and water cannon to clear thousands of demonstrators from the streets. The order immediately closed two television stations and banned public assembly in the capital, and would be in effect for at least 48 hours, a senior government official said by telephone.

The country’s principal opposition news outlet, Imedi TV, went off the air as a special forces unit, armed and wearing dark masks, entered the station’s offices. By then at least 365 people had reported to hospitals to treat their injuries, the country’s health ministry said.
And note that the demonstration didn't acttack police, didn't violate any law.

I fancy if such event would happen in London how it would be called.

bearstillinthewoods said:
These protests are openly financed by a billionaire based in London, Patarkatsishvili...
Btw, he is wanted in Russia. Why not to extradict him?

bearstillinthewoods said:
..., who got fed up when the Georgian government refused to sell him everything they were privatizing. Their poster-boy is a former defence minister, Okruashvili, who was roundly condemned as corrupt only a year ago by the very same opposition parties who now support him.
It seems to me that all Georgian politicians are corruptioners.

bearstillinthewoods said:
Interestingly, Okruashvili, who has recently been hanging around in London, was apparently refused a British visa last week and so ended up in Munich.

The ten so-called opposition parties only formed their coalition in September when Patarkatsishvili opened his chequebook and Okruashvili agreed to be their leader (as he was considerably more popular than any of the opposition leaders because of his war-mongering rhetoric as defence minister).
Maybe tens thousands of protesters were paid as well?

bearstillinthewoods said:
As for Russia, how could they fail to try to exploit a situation that could remove their nemesis, Saakashvili? The government has presented evidence of links between some opposition leaders and Russian diplomats/spies. And Russia has form for this in Georgia.
Evidence? Ha-ha-ha. Maybe Russia fund Gergian opposition?

bearstillinthewoods said:
So, if Saakashvili really does believe that Russia and a disgruntled rich man are trying to destablize the country, why should he not take action?
By using tear gas, rubber bullets, by closing TV. Why independent TV has been closed?

bearstillinthewoods said:
Don't forget both he and the parliament were democratically elected, their terms have yet to expire, and the constitution was even amended to shorten Saakashvili's term. So why is the opposition's main demand for elections to be moved from autumn 2008 to April 2008.
I suppose because namely in April 2008 Georgian parliament must be reelected according to the constitution.

bearstillinthewoods said:
Is it because they know that their coalition won't last and they want to cash in while Patarkatsishvili is still handing out the cash?
Maybe it is true but why to close independent TV?
Somebody needs to get out more I think.....
 
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