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Anorack heaven

ugly

LE
Moderator
Sorry about the size of this pic but it seems that the swiss and swedish shelfs are one above the other!
click
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Thanks for that pic Ugly, it gives me a better view and shows I was far too hasty in saying that this paticular photo was mislabeled..
I'll admit to being a dick. :D

The other comment still stands - until I'm proven to have stuffed up again.

Closer study of this view shows the rifle to the left of the StG 57 is not a Ljungman, (AG42 or AG42B,) nor is it a Rasheed.

The magazine has a similar contour to that of the Schmidt-Rubins so I'd guess it was chambered for the GP11, the foresight looks very Swiss too. I'm trying to remember what the upper handguard reminds me of.
If it was a contender for the Swiss service rifle trials could it be a version of the Gram (itself a development of the AG) ?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
The second one on the top shelf is an attempt to auto convert a la Charlton/Reider a K31 or similar!
I see what you mean, thats what I thought when I said about the furniture being very K31.
You are not aDick, the tag hanging dwn in the top left with M42 written on it may be attached to the butt of a rifle on the rack above.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
In Fact if you go from top left to bottom right it looks like the whole development trials series for the first Swiss self loader until you get to the stg57 of course as that turns the aesthetics upside down, not that the cuckoolanders had much!
 

HE117

LE
While the spotters are in...

What do you think this is...?

(Excuse the firer, this was the decade fashion forgot...)
 

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ugly

LE
Moderator
Seen one of those before, MCEM2 Machine carbine experimental Model. This had a canvas covered wire butt which doubled up s a holster.
Length 23.5"
Wt 6lb
Barrel 8.5"
Calibre 9mm'
Rifling 6 groove right hand
feed 18 rd box]Cyclic rate 1000rpm
Muzzle velocity 1200fps
sights fixed
Designed by Polish lt Podsenkowsky as a replacement for the sten carbines. The magazine fitted into the pistol grip. It was cocked like the M3 grease gun by sticking your finger into a hole through the cocking slot.
its rate of fire meant it was difficult to control which lead to its rejection.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
4(T) said:
Is the rifle to the left of the stg57 in fact a SIG SK46 or a later development?
Not sure to be honest, I suppose its time to look on the swiss arms website and ask for model id's. Many though could be trials rifles and unaidentifiable without a visit to read the tags. Sounds like a good idea to me!
 

HE117

LE
ugly said:
Seen one of those before, MCEM2 Machine carbine experimental Model. This had a canvas covered wire butt which doubled up s a holster.
Length 23.5"
Wt 6lb
Barrel 8.5"
Calibre 9mm'
Rifling 6 groove right hand
feed 18 rd box]Cyclic rate 1000rpm
Muzzle velocity 1200fps
sights fixed
Designed by Polish lt Podsenkowsky as a replacement for the sten carbines. The magazine fitted into the pistol grip. It was cocked like the M3 grease gun by sticking your finger into a hole through the cocking slot.
its rate of fire meant it was difficult to control which lead to its rejection.

Got it in one Ugly...

Yes, the rate of fire was quite spectacular (count the cases in the air), I didn't however find it too difficult to control...

The rate is not that different from a PPSh though and it had a muzzle brakie thing which kept the muzzle from climbing. My main complaint was that the mag was too small. I suspect the real reason for rejection was that it was probably too expensive to manufacture. Considering you can stamp Uzis out of old spam cans, I suppose it could not compete...
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I like your jacket, clothes from the car cupboard then?
As for where, well only herb or the museum caretaker could tell us. I didnt know any were available or even existed. It was unique in that the bolt and barrel almost were telescoped inside one another. thats not the right phrase but I'm sure you know what I mean. Cocking it must have been interesting with a twist of the forend, push forward and pull back!
I have to admit a bit of jealousy but when I saw the 4.85mm IW weapon being trialled as a young lad at IJLB it was by then just another weapon!
 

HE117

LE
As I say - it was a few years ago...

Not one of Herbies, though he may have got his mitts on it later. He was pretty good at that.

Not sure you have got the cocking action right, are you mixing it up with the BSA prototype? With the MCEM2 you just stick your finger in the slot at the top and pull the bolt back.

I think this was the first weapon to use the telescopic bolt. This design is still used by the Uzi, and the Berreta M12. It really does improve the balance as well as the length as well as giving some protection if there is a breech explosion.

OK Another one ... (Hold back a bit Ugly!)

What are these "Bits" from...?
 

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ugly

LE
Moderator
Yes you are correct regarding the cocking sequence that was from the BSA experimental, the MCEM1 was designed by Patchett. The MCEM2 was identical to the M3 Grease gun in having no cocking handle! Unlike the M3A1.
Doubly odd for me to write that as I had described the cocking in the description. Too much Vino!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
HE117 said:
As I say - it was a few years ago...

Not one of Herbies, though he may have got his mitts on it later. He was pretty good at that.

Not sure you have got the cocking action right, are you mixing it up with the BSA prototype? With the MCEM2 you just stick your finger in the slot at the top and pull the bolt back.

I think this was the first weapon to use the telescopic bolt. This design is still used by the Uzi, and the Berreta M12. It really does improve the balance as well as the length as well as giving some protection if there is a breech explosion.

OK Another one ... (Hold back a bit Ugly!)


What are these "Bits" from...?
I'd like to say the bolt carrier and assemblies from the 00 series of the EWS produced between 1972 - 74, the only problem is that the two holes that hold the bolt in the carrier appear to be as close as in the AR18. What is confusing is that cocking handle is clearly not an AR18 one and the Enfield cut and shut model used the same handle. This could mean that the carrier was canabalised for the 00 series or its the one from the Stoner 63 bullpup conversion in the MoD Pattern Room collection.
It definetly is an early 00 bolt handle! I do believe that all of these would have been in the 4.85mm calibre and this one is one of the right handled models.
1 was made in 5.56mm so it could be that. The cocking handle is the give away as to the series! Or my books could be wrong!
Of course the L85/86 series shouldnt have the second hole should it?
 

HE117

LE
Hmm,

Got you sniffing there Ugly...

So, What is it?

Stoner 63
AR 18
AR 180
XL 64
L85
Summat Else...?

Cup Ball, Ball Cup...

Make the call...
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
XL 64

final answer, early 00 series.
 

HE117

LE
Close...

But no Cigar!

It's the AR 18, but I suspect a fairly early model..

I am always having arguments with folk that the SA80 is nothing but a body shopped cutprice Armalite.. I thinnk this proves it!
 

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I bet Ugly spots this:

What is it and what is it on?
 

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HE117

LE
Greener GP Shotgun chokes...

Not quick enough Ugly....
 
HE117 said:
Greener GP Shotgun chokes...

Not quick enough Ugly....
That was quick! I'd only made a cup of tea and a venison sandwich!

Here's a standard Greener GP for those who haven't seen one:



12 Bore Martini action shotgun. Only a few had the multichokes, I've got one with and one without. With the chokes removed the muzzle is left with a sort of flash eliminator come muzzle brake look as in previous post. Mine has full and 1/4 chokes. Standard models generally had full choke. All could take rather heavy loads compared with your typical side by side of the period.
 

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