Anglo-French Deal Upsets Neighbors

#1
The return of the Axis... ;-)

Germans, Italians Warn of '2-Tier Europe'


ROME - Italy's defense industry has launched a fight against a France-U.K. deal on defense cooperation that it believes is weakening European industrial integration, and it has won backing from Germany's industrial association.

"Everyone is worried that the Anglo-French deal will lead to a two-tier Europe," said Remo Pertica, the chairman of AIAD, the Italian defense manufacturers' association. AIAD is promoting a raft of new European research and development programs that it hopes will rival the Anglo-French effort.

In November, France and the United Kingdom signed a wide-ranging defense accord, envisioning bilateral cooperation on a range of technologies, from missiles to UAVs.

Alarm bells immediately rang in Rome over the perceived threat to future joint European programs in which Italy could participate.

Anglo-French Deal Upsets Neighbors - Defense News
 
#3
I'll get worried about what Italy thinks when it joins the 1st world.
 
#4
So that is the Italians who make all the reverse gears and all the glass for the bottom of vessels.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
Sod the neighbours, it upsets me. The only military association we should have with the French involves shooting Frenchmen, the capture Paris and enjoying the collaborating French maidens. And I'm not overly hung up on the need to capture Paris - its a shitehole
 
#6
The return of the Axis... ;-)

Germans, Italians Warn of '2-Tier Europe'


ROME - Italy's defense industry has launched a fight against a France-U.K. deal on defense cooperation that it believes is weakening European industrial integration, and it has won backing from Germany's industrial association.

"Everyone is worried that the Anglo-French deal will lead to a two-tier Europe," said Remo Pertica, the chairman of AIAD, the Italian defense manufacturers' association. AIAD is promoting a raft of new European research and development programs that it hopes will rival the Anglo-French effort.

In November, France and the United Kingdom signed a wide-ranging defense accord, envisioning bilateral cooperation on a range of technologies, from missiles to UAVs.

Alarm bells immediately rang in Rome over the perceived threat to future joint European programs in which Italy could participate.

Anglo-French Deal Upsets Neighbors - Defense News
Be afraid, be very very afraid :- YouTube - ‪Captain Alberto Bertorelli from Allo' Allo' !‬‏ :)
 
#8
Don't we already have a two tier-if not three or four tier- when it comes to military matters in Europe? Surely the likes of Luxembourg, Ireland, Belgium, portugal, etc etc aren't considered as being in the same class as the UK and France. There's always been a big fish little fish scenario in europe and no matter how much they like to think otherwise, the Italians have been distinctly in the middle for centuries
 
#10
Stuff the Bepo,s, and their garlic breath
 
#12
How interesting. Axis vs. Allied again. (And Italy is STILL the junior partner.) ;-) :-D
 
#13
So that is the Italians who make all the reverse gears and all the glass for the bottom of vessels.
I've never quite got why the Eyeties were said to have all the reverse gears - they managed quite a long time in WWII before surrendering.

If anything, the Frogs should have the 1 forward, 6 reverse-geared tanks, and the Italians double ended ones to allow them to change sides more easily.
 
#14
Meh, too late to cry about this now. They had 2 decades from the "end" of the CW to now to sort something out and they didn't want it....Us too, our "neutrality" being an imaginary fig leaf as we depended on others to actually protect us unlike the other "neutral/non alligned" nations in Europe who invested in their defences.

The UK and France said **** it and are actually doing something concrete.
 
#15
UK+France: Capability to reach out, kill people, break things and make self illuminating, glass surfaced car parks.

Rest of EU: Spectators and window lickers
 
#16
I don't think Ireland has/had the population or the money to invest in any kind of effective military. Perhaps if we had joined NATO decades ago when there actually was a tangible threat, we could have milked the American cow for decent kit, maybe fit the air corps out with a few buckshee f16's etc. Instead we've got a situation where your average African shithole could spank the IDF without help from our cousins across the Irish sea. And if I was them I'd have two fingers up to us
 
#17
Italians are only good for producing two things, whores and footballers and they are not that good!! Try working with the mongs, first sign of trouble they go crying to mummy.
 
#18
Shocker! All the Huns, Dagoes, Wops and Wogs never knew the Frogs had an army. Still less any soldiers. Until they got Dave's trainset...
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
To be fair to the French, much of their military (based on the history I have read) seems to be pretty good. Where they have let themselves down (often spectacularly badly) falls into 2 main categories:-

1/ Picking fights against the English/British or Germans.

2/ Being lead by senior officers and politicians that are too cowardly/incompetent/octogenarian (delete as applicable). I've always had the feeling that most of the soldiers and junior-mid ranking officers would have fought to the death in 1940. But they were ordered to surrender by politicians that then went on to collaborate...

As for the Germans and the Wops, screw 'em. They want to be in the big boys club they can buy the kit and do the initiation ceremony.
 
#20
To be fair to the French, much of their military (based on the history I have read) seems to be pretty good. Where they have let themselves down (often spectacularly badly) falls into 2 main categories:-

1/ Picking fights against the English/British or Germans.

2/ Being lead by senior officers and politicians that are too cowardly/incompetent/octogenarian (delete as applicable). I've always had the feeling that most of the soldiers and junior-mid ranking officers would have fought to the death in 1940. But they were ordered to surrender by politicians that then went on to collaborate...

As for the Germans and the Wops, screw 'em. They want to be in the big boys club they can buy the kit and do the initiation ceremony.
The French have traditionally been the European military superpower, since they united the country in the Middle Ages (by chucking us out). Louis xiv, and Napoleon put the frighteners on the whole continent.

Until Bismark in the 1800's Germany was just where everyone else went to fight their wars. Certain states had a good rep, others were jokes. The same could be said for Britain. For most of our history, the Army was pretty rubbish, until Olly Cromwell brought in the New Model Army.

The Continent is returning to normal after the 'disturbances' of the 20th century. Germany passively neutral, France quite aggressive, Italy and Spain looking nervously at France. The UK is slowly finding its natural position, somewhere below France but ahead of Germany.-That's why we're quite good at alliances- We've always needed them to balance the French.

Your comment on the officers of 1940 is pretty accurate.But it applied to us as well. Many of our generals were overage left overs, programmed to refight the Great War again. Churchill sacked them in sequence, until he found a few competent ones.

Petain was a competent fire-eater in World War I, but was a geriatric by the time he was put in charge of Vichy. Germany just had better, younger officers at the start of 1939.

I'd say that the issue isn't really the kit. It's the lack of public will across Europe to go adventuring in foreign climes. No-one wants to do the Colonial thing again, and there's no votes in it at home. Until someone else decides to take up the White Man's Burden, and sells it to their electorate, it'll still be the top two or three nations tapped up by the rest of Europe to do their dirty work.
 

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