Anger at PSNI recruits IRA medal

#41
sugarfree_gum said:
Bossdog said:
the_matelot said:
The fecking Unionists are outraged by everything..... :roll:
Can tell you've never served in Northern Ireland ya prick!

Feck off to ur own gay singing and dancing **** *cough* i mean naval forum.
If you do a search of the matelots posts as I have done you will discover he is an NCO in The Royal Navy and as such he wouldn't be required to serve a tour of duty in NI. You might also notice he is a citizen of The Republic of Ireland. I think its safe to say an Irishman might have different take on this issue.Just because he doesn't hold the same point of view doesn't make him a prikc or a cnut.
Try this :- I think its a very encouraging sighn that the PSNI are welcoming people from all sectors of the community into thier ranks. It sends a message to the disenfranchised memebers of thier society ( ie the the republican catholics) that thier police force is no longer comprises of officers drawn from one particular segment of society. Maybe you would like to go back to the good old days of the '70s where the RUC was seen as a political weapon of the state by the catholics and as such were considered as a legitimate target by the para militaries and as a complete 'one sided' police force who had no influence, respect or credibility within the catholic communities?

This whole issue sends out a clear message :- the PSNI accepts recruits from ALL members of the community and the racial and sectarian bigotry of the RUC (whether real or imagined ) is on its way to being put into the dustbin of history.

So don't have a dig at matelot for expressing an opinion differnt to the arrse 'status quo'
I welcome this devolpment as I realise the only way forward in NI is a shedding of ancient prejudices and hates and a moving together of the communities.


24653050 L/cpl
1 emergency tour 1983
2 year residential tour 1985-87

brother of 'Micky' KIA warren point 27th August 1979.

It might be a shite peace , but its better than fcuk all.

if this is the case , then what are your feeling on positive discrimination? the police were not from just one side of the community , annoying the poor down -trodden catholics. Don't make me laugh. When all that malarchy was on the TV about the holy cross school , do you think there was any coverage about the protestant school accross the road. They had to be bussed in with rocks and stones being thrown at them. peace ? PMSL!!!!!


If you don't live here, be quiet sugarfree
 
#42
Bossdog said:
sugarfree_gum said:
Bossdog said:
the_matelot said:
The fecking Unionists are outraged by everything..... :roll:
Can tell you've never served in Northern Ireland ya prick!

Feck off to ur own gay singing and dancing **** *cough* i mean naval forum.
If you do a search of the matelots posts as I have done you will discover he is an NCO in The Royal Navy and as such he wouldn't be required to serve a tour of duty in NI.
So you're saying the Royal Navy don't serve in Northern Ireland anymore. Well I think you'll find that they do. In the 12 years I've served here I've met many, and continue to see the RN posted here in various roles.

sugarfree_gum said:
[ RUC was seen as a political weapon of the state by the catholics and as such were considered as a legitimate target by the para militaries
They still are targets mate from both Loyalists and Republican Dissidents but of course nothing happens in N.I. anymore does it? The devices are just called "viable" now so as not to scare the public. I was on four cordons within the last five months for six viable devices - and two were of considerable size. Peace I hear you all say? It doesn't even get coverage anymore.

Maybe "Manchester cop can also elaborate...? Its ok to be posted here for a year or two but you have to live here and work here permanently to get the bigger picture.





sugarfree_gum said:
brother of 'Micky' KIA warren point 27th August 1979.
RIP. Sorry for your loss. Respect.


Bossdog out.
Bossdog. thankyou for your reply.
In respect to my point on the navy :- I meant they dont serve as infantrymen or ever have done in NI . I take my hat off to all the boys and girls who have ever served anywhere on active duty. I was perhaps being to specific in that I mean infantry work.

I understand and appreciate your secont point about the peace process.I really do. I know its not ideal and I fullyrealise its not 'real' peace. I just think its better than it was. I know the thugs and the gangs and the kneecappings still go on.
NI has been a pretty big deal for me and my family and I just want to draw positivety whereever i can find it .
I mean no offence to the RUC or the PSNI past or present .
and im pissed :oops:
 
#43
IrishDoris said:
sugarfree_gum said:
Bossdog said:
the_matelot said:
The fecking Unionists are outraged by everything..... :roll:
Can tell you've never served in Northern Ireland ya prick!

Feck off to ur own gay singing and dancing **** *cough* i mean naval forum.
If you do a search of the matelots posts as I have done you will discover he is an NCO in The Royal Navy and as such he wouldn't be required to serve a tour of duty in NI. You might also notice he is a citizen of The Republic of Ireland. I think its safe to say an Irishman might have different take on this issue.Just because he doesn't hold the same point of view doesn't make him a prikc or a cnut.
Try this :- I think its a very encouraging sighn that the PSNI are welcoming people from all sectors of the community into thier ranks. It sends a message to the disenfranchised memebers of thier society ( ie the the republican catholics) that thier police force is no longer comprises of officers drawn from one particular segment of society. Maybe you would like to go back to the good old days of the '70s where the RUC was seen as a political weapon of the state by the catholics and as such were considered as a legitimate target by the para militaries and as a complete 'one sided' police force who had no influence, respect or credibility within the catholic communities?

This whole issue sends out a clear message :- the PSNI accepts recruits from ALL members of the community and the racial and sectarian bigotry of the RUC (whether real or imagined ) is on its way to being put into the dustbin of history.

So don't have a dig at matelot for expressing an opinion differnt to the arrse 'status quo'
I welcome this devolpment as I realise the only way forward in NI is a shedding of ancient prejudices and hates and a moving together of the communities.


24653050 L/cpl
1 emergency tour 1983
2 year residential tour 1985-87

brother of 'Micky' KIA warren point 27th August 1979.

It might be a shite peace , but its better than fcuk all.

if this is the case , then what are your feeling on positive discrimination? the police were not from just one side of the community , annoying the poor down -trodden catholics. Don't make me laugh. When all that malarchy was on the TV about the holy cross school , do you think there was any coverage about the protestant school accross the road. They had to be bussed in with rocks and stones being thrown at them. peace ? PMSL!!!!!


If you don't live here, be quiet sugarfree
sure doris .
so losing my brother in your toilet of a province and wasting 2.5 years of my life there doesn't entitle me to an opinion ? One thing I did learn in your cak infested miserable 16th century opinionated little dump of 6 counties that you have more bigots per square km than there are nits on a bog trotters head. Wake and smell the grass Doris . No one except you and alot of bowler hatted flatulent old bigots really gives a toss about the joke you call home.

I tried to be civil. I really did. But as usual some nasaly probably ginger Mick stuck her big orange oar in. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Doris. the sooner Dublin gets control of your Rat infested hypocrital sewar 6 counties the happier I will be .
And Doris 99.9% of people on the 'mainland' don't give a flying fcuk what happens to the lot of ya .
So go and paint your kerb stones red white and blue you silly little turd. Brittania has long since stopped caring


ok I Bit
 
#44
So, a genuine question now. Am I entitled to wear my grandpa's WWI medals (including his IRA medal), albeit on the right breast of my Regimental blazer, on Rememberance Sundays?
Not forgetting that I'm an ex-member of the British Army.

MsG
 
#45
sugarfree_gum said:
sure doris .
so losing my brother in your toilet of a province and wasting 2.5 years of my life there doesn't entitle me to an opinion ?

No, not really but sorry for your loss

One thing I did learn in your cak infested miserable 16th century opinionated little dump of 6 counties
Actually, it 17th century


that you have more bigots per square km than there are nits on a bog trotters head.
if you knew anything, then you'd know that most people are fed up with the situation as well


Wake and smell the grass Doris . No one except you and alot of bowler hatted flatulent old bigots really gives a toss about the joke you call home.
now you've just being stupid. There you are preaching about more tollerant times when you are the biggest biggot of them all


I tried to be civil. I really did. But as usual some nasaly probably ginger Mick stuck her big orange oar in. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Gosh , yes , you are civil aren't you. and i'm not ginger you mong


And Doris 99.9% of people on the 'mainland' don't give a flying fcuk what happens to the lot of ya .

well, i'm half english so shove that up your hoop




Yes , you did
 
#46
IrishDoris said:
sugarfree_gum said:
Yes , you did
Yeah, like not just the bait, but the hook, the sinker, the fishing rod, and the fisherman holding the rod :lol:
 
#47
Bossdog said:
gallowglass said:
Now, it is a little inaccurate for unionists to get excited about this particular episode, as the 'Black and Tan' medal, and by association the Old IRA, has nothing to do with the PIRA and the most recent Troubles
Members still joined PIRA from the Old IRA (the official IRA or "stickies" as they were nicknamed).

"The 'Irish Republican Army' dates from the meeting of the first Dáil on 21 January 1919 and was the name that was adopted by the Irish Volunteers who had taken part in the Easter Rising in Dublin in 1916. Following independence in the south of Ireland the IRA re-emerged at various times to conduct campaigns to try to end British rule in Norther Ireland. Following the failed 'Border Campaign' (1956-1962) there were attempts to move the IRA towards more political agitation rather than military operations.
The Provisional IRA was established when the IRA split in December 1969 between the 'Officials' and the 'Provisionals'. Both groupings had a military wing, the 'Official' and 'Provisional' IRA, and both had a political wing, the 'Official' and 'Provisional' Sinn Féin (SF). The 'Official' IRA declared a ceasefire in the summer of 1972 and from then on the term IRA was used for the organisation that had developed from the 'Provisional' IRA". - Ryan, Patrick. (2001), 'The Birth of the Provisionals - A Clash between Politics and Tradition'


....Mr McGuinness then told the inquiry that he had joined the official IRA for a few weeks at the end of 1970, before leaving to join the Provisionals. The Provisionals split from the old official republican movement in 1969, becoming the dominant militant faction.

"At the time of Bloody Sunday I was adjutant in the Derry command of the IRA. Within two weeks of Bloody Sunday, I became officer in command of the Provisional IRA," he added. - Guardian Special Report / BloodySunday / Tuesday November 4, 2003

So yes, as a serving soldier in the British Army, and with friends serving in the PSNI that are former military, I do have a right to be pissed about it.
There is certainly a thread of continuity between the various Republican movements stretching back to the 19th century - the Fenians, the Invincibles, the IRB, Irish Volunteers, Old IRA, post-1922 IRA, 'Stickies', Provisionals, CIRA, RIRA,....primarly through the evolution of membership from one organisation to the next. However, I still feel that the factual accuracy of my posting which you have quoted stands. Martin McGuinness has very little in common with the Old IRA, other than an adherence to the term 'IRA'. Sinn Féin/PIRA - for the purposes of credibility and gaining recruits - have always sought to link themselves with the previous manisfestations of the IRA (or rather those aspects of it which appeal to them - for example, they make a point of not laying claim to Michael Collins), but simply put, the PIRA has always been a separate organisation (unfortunately, many extremely stupid and naive Irish people seem unaware of this point).

It is probably unnecessary, but to guard against any misapprehension, perhaps I should defend myself against any belief on your part that I am somehow 'soft' on the various IRAs - were it not for the grace of God, and the incompetence of a certain IRA volunteer in the 1960s, yours truly would never have been born, as said IRA volunteer was carrying a bomb into the officers' married quarters of McKee Barracks in Dublin; thankfully, he managed to blow himself to pieces, and not my parents.

To answer the question regarding Irish service during the First and Second World War:

c.500,000 Irishmen served in British Forces during the First World War; the majority were Irish Catholics. Some 50,000 died. They were all volunteers and there was no conscription in Ireland.

c. 150,000-250,000 Irishmen served in British Forces during the Second World War. It is now believed that the figure was probably many times higher on account of Irishmen from the South giving British addresses. Some 5,000 officers and men deserted from the Irish Army in the period 1939-45 specifically to join the British Army. Whilst there was conscription in Northern Ireland as elsewhere in Britain, all Irishmen from the neutral South were volunteers. The Irish representation in the Airborne forces and in the SAS during the Second World War was disproportionally high, approaching a majority at times in the SAS. The only VC won by a serviceman from Northern Ireland was awarded to a Catholic.
 
#48
Bossdog said:
MrPVRd said:
The medal itself cannot cause offence, as it is a part of the tradition of the Republic of Ireland, a sovereign state, and part of history.
So let the Gardai wear it then. As Northern Ireland is still British, I don't believe it should be worn by a Police Force in the United Kingdom.
That may be irrelevant. If the rules permit the wearing of foreign awards, then the Irish ones are presumably permitted. I presume that in the British Army, one can wear foreign jump wings, or other such skill badges such as Schutzenschnur. If those foreign awards can be worn, then I don't see any legitimate argument against the wear of a foreign service award.

NTM
 
#49
Bugsy,

I think this is an unoffical- but honourable- action.

1. NoK ie Husband or wife
2. The first member of the next generation

On Rememberance Day Mum could wear them but the "right" doesn't pass on to me.

Having said that one year when my children were at primary school I sewed Dads ribbons on their uniforms
for the school service that was held on Rememberance Day.- The medals went in their case for display.

IIRC the NoK of a VC winner could wear the ribbon on the right side of their uniform if serving. (1920's)
 
#50
gallowglass said:
......... Whilst there was conscription in Northern Ireland as elsewhere in Britain, all Irishmen from the neutral South were volunteers.....
Thank you for your informative post.

I was under the impression that there was no conscription in Northern Ireland.

Here is a quote from some of my online research resources,

"During World War II, the Stormont government called on Westminster to introduce conscription several times, as this was already the case in Britain. The British government consistently refused, remembering how a similar attempt in 1918 had backfired dramatically as nationalist opposition made it unworkable. Much of the population of serving age were either in essential jobs or had already joined up voluntarily, making the potential yield of conscription low."
 
#51
sugarfree_gum said:
Sure doris, so losing my brother in your toilet of a province and wasting 2.5 years of my life there doesn't entitle me to an opinion ? One thing I did learn in your cak infested miserable 16th century opinionated little dump of 6 counties that you have more bigots per square km than there are nits on a bog trotters head. Wake and smell the grass Doris . No one except you and alot of bowler hatted flatulent old bigots really gives a toss about the joke you call home.

I tried to be civil. I really did. But as usual some nasaly probably ginger Mick stuck her big orange oar in.

Doris. the sooner Dublin gets control of your Rat infested hypocrital sewar 6 counties the happier I will be .
And Doris 99.9% of people on the 'mainland' don't give a flying fcuk what happens to the lot of ya .
So go and paint your kerb stones red white and blue you silly little turd. Brittania has long since stopped caring
sugarfree_gum said:
IrishDoris said:
Yes , you did
Bossdog said:
Yeah, like not just the bait, but the hook, the sinker, the fishing rod, and the fisherman holding the rod :lol:
Quite so Bossdog, but never the less, quite an apt description of both the place and Britain's view of it.
 
#52
The ROYAL ULSTER CONSTABULARY will never be erased from our hearts and the magnificent job they have done over the years.The reason they were disbanded is simple,Tony B-Liar basically is a republican sympathiser who gave in to Shimpf Fein at every opportunity he could to keep them sweet.It will only be a matter of time when ULSTER will be handed back to EIRE and when the Loyalist's rise up to voice their anger then there will be a war on our doorstep.

Loyal ex RUC man
 
#53
Tartan Jock, I suppose you wear your rangers jersey to bed as well as every waking hour of the day :roll:. Do you refer to Germany as Deutchland? If so then fine, if you don't, it's the ROI or Ireland as most people call it. Don't be a condescending cnut all your life. As for the PSNI/RUC thing-I think it could've been done better.

As for Bossdogs and Pere...'s comments, lets clear up a few things.

Firstly, I'm Southern Irish(born and reared!) as sg_f pointed out. I have had relatives who fought in the Great War and WW2 who were from Southern Ireland.

I am also British.

I think Unionists/Loyalists/Republicians/Sympathisers are all CNUTS of the highest order and should be eliminated from the genepool. It's funny how some posters on this site are sympathetic to some of the above mentioned groups but then bang on about AQ needing to be removed. They're all terrorists. Would it be any different if someone posted on this website that AQ etc were doing the right thing?Remember that...

Adams/McGuinness/Paisley all seem like such lovely well balanced, non-caustic chaps don't you think?? :roll:

I also think (and no offence to NI arrsers here) that NI is a shithole. as SF_G mentioned. They're welcome to moan/drip/bitch about every fcuking petty thing under the sun as they seem to do constantly. Most people in Southern Ireland/Great Britain don't give a sh1t what they do. Unification? Let PIRA/Sinn Fein (same thing anyway) think what they think to the contrary. Southern Ireland doesn't want it. Maybe 30/40 years ago (before my time) they did want it but now people in the Republic have had enough of it.

Personally, I'm sick to death of all that shite that happens in Northern Ireland.

But on a lighter note....

I got a Ian Paisley calendar for Christmas. It goes January, February, MARCH, MARCH, MARCH!!!!
 
#54
the_matelot said:
I think Unionists/Loyalists/Republicians/Sympathisers are all CNUTS of the highest order and should be eliminated from the genepool. It's funny how some posters on this site are sympathetic to some of the above mentioned groups but then bang on about AQ needing to be removed. They're all terrorists. Would it be any different if someone posted on this website that AQ etc were doing the right thing?Remember that...
I don't think you can paint all Unionists or Republicans with the same brush. These are just people with a point of view. It is those who use extreme methods to try and force their perspective on the rest of us that are to be condemned. Your narrow view of the people in NI show you to be part of the whole problem and as a foreigner your comments are as invalid as the sceptics.
 
#55
With reference to Matelots serving (or not serving in NI), I did several tours between 1969 and 1987 in NI with different Royal Marine Commando Units. There were always at least a dozen matelots in the unit as medics, doctors, int gatherers, photographers and other odds and sods. They all played their part, not as REMFS but out on patrols with the 'gravel bellies' in the city as well as in the South Armagh. I for one was impressed by their skills and abilities in working along side infanteers.

Shiner
 
#56
First post, but had to get my thoughts on this one down.

The medal: The "Old IRA" split after the War of Independence. Those that supported the state became the Irish Army, which still exists and is the only organistaion that has a direct, unbroken and legitimate line of descent. We should ignore claims by stickies and provos alike. Unless you have a problem with the Republic's right to exist - and to have fought for that independence - you shouldn't really have a problem with the War of Independence Service medal.

The incident: I'm not sure what right this recruit has to wear the medal, or if he should have. I'd certainly never wear my own ancestor's Black and Tan medal because I didn't earn it. However there is another perspective that you could look at this from, especially given the history of policing in Northern Ireland and the attitude of the nationalist community to it:
This guy is saying clearly that he comes from a nationalist background, is proud of it, and is ready and proud to serve in the PSNI. Is this not what we want?
 
#57
the_matelot said:
The fecking Unionists are outraged by everything..... :roll:
In this instance they have every right you fcuking Pugwash nosher
 
#58
the_guru,

If all you come come out with is stereotyping of the navy being gay (oh, that hasn't been mentioned on arrse at all before!), then you are not contributing much to the argument. If you read my second post on this topic, you will find that I think just as highly about the republican w@nkers as well....
 
#59
manchestercop said:
spike7451 said:
A good mate of mine who was in the RUC told me that in the days before the PSNI came into being,a senior officer went round the stations,ensuring that ALL traces of the RUC,from crested mugs to awards & photo
's were removed!
Now we all wear RUC tie tacs hidden somewhere on our person :D

Good on yer....
 
#60
I was not insinuating at your sexuality, by the Freudian slip tells me a lot.
Anyway The Unionists DO whine and DO go over the top by a long way, but like the saying goes "Just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you", in this instance they have every right to be outraged by this event. Do you really we won't see this specemin in court in a couple of years time, sueing the PSNI for whatever. He really is investing in his colleagues isn't he? It is a provocative gesture and will not warm him to wherever he ends up. And BTW I could not imagne serving for any other country than my own, so if you were born and raised in bonoland, why are you not serving with the ROI Navy - or are both spots filled at the moment?
 
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