Andrew Walker - Royal Scots mass murderer dies

I’ve run secure hospitals dealing with patients with a variety of severe personality disorders, and was present at the conference where the esteemed forensic psychologist, Prof Conor Duggan, who oversaw the DSPD (Dangerous and Severe)programmes at Broadmoor and Rampton basically said they didn’t work and those people should be in prison, not hospitals. The result of his coming to that conclusion was that group, which included Peter Sutcliffe, were returned to prison and the programme stopped.


Comes back to the same thing really doesn't it?
There is no cure for an AntiSocial Personality Disorder

I do believe that although it cannot be cured the majority of sufferes can be educated in to conforming a bit more. In truth, if they conform to societal norms then that is suffcient is it not?
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I get the complete lack of empathy, but surely even a psychopathic personality has an innate sense of self-preservation and can realise what he/she can or cannot possibly get away with.
Psychopaths tend to have a rather greater sense of self-preservation, if anything.

Don't confuse the slang term of being a bit 'psycho' and the real, clinical definition.
 

WhiteCrane

Old-Salt
I’ve run secure hospitals dealing with patients with a variety of severe personality disorders, and was present at the conference where the esteemed forensic psychologist, Prof Conor Duggan, who oversaw the DSPD (Dangerous and Severe)programmes at Broadmoor and Rampton basically said they didn’t work and those people should be in prison, not hospitals. The result of his coming to that conclusion was that group, which included Peter Sutcliffe, were returned to prison and the programme stopped.
when was this please?
 
Comes back to the same thing really doesn't it?
There is no cure for an AntiSocial Personality Disorder

I do believe that although it cannot be cured the majority of sufferes can be educated in to conforming a bit more. In truth, if they conform to societal norms then that is suffcient is it not?
He was specifically referring to the (mainly) murderers/rapists etc that made up that programme at the time, the bar to get onto the Dangerous and Severe PD programme was very high.

Quick edit just to add that the conference was dealing with issues around public safety and mental disorder, and had a number of eminent speakers, including probation, criminal justice system, police etc as well as clinicians working in that field.
 
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Psychopaths tend to have a rather greater sense of self-preservation, if anything.

Don't confuse the slang term of being a bit 'psycho' and the real, clinical definition.


Not always, many suffer a quite severe compulsion to take some pretty hefty personal risks.
Its an ever increasing thing, the more they get away with the more they push it.
Possibly compensating for the lack of feeling much emotion in normal cicumstances.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Not always, many suffer a quite severe compulsion to take some pretty hefty personal risks.
Its an ever increasing thing, the more they get away with the more they push it.
Possibly compensating for the lack of feeling much emotion in normal cicumstances.
True - hence being good at sales, for example.
 
Psychopaths tend to have a rather greater sense of self-preservation, if anything.

Don't confuse the slang term of being a bit 'psycho' and the real, clinical definition.

Some do.

I remember two particular incidents, within months of each other, where psychopaths in their early 20s went berserk following utterly trivial disagreements. One left his victim brain damaged on a life support machine. The other (miraculously) caused less physical damage, but used a weapon on a semiconscious victim and displayed the same murderous intent.

Both acted on the spur of the moment and in front of several witnesses. They'd had a few beers, but weren't drunk. What was a life changing realisation for me, was their absolute calm indifference two minutes later. Whatever it is that constitutes a genuine human being, just wasn't there. Both were slightly below average intelligence and were already facing courts martial on unrelated charges.

The strangest thing was that they both went back to camp at the end of the night. I could understand scaling the fence and trying to slip into the block to grab any essential items from your locker, but these guys walked through the front gate and were grabbed on the spot. If I'd just committed an attempted murder in front of a room full of people who could name me, I'd be in immediate E&E mode. They had no sense of self preservation whatsoever.
 
ex RAF and claimed to have been on the flight deck of the Herc that took "them" up there
ISTR that Private Eye reported on the planespotter, from those innocent days when airports had viewing balconies, who recorded the refueling at Edinburgh Airport of THEIR civvy-helicopter-of-forcibly-changed-ownership at roughly the correct time before, and roughly the correct time after, said riot and its conclusion.
 
Some do.

I remember two particular incidents, within months of each other, where psychopaths in their early 20s went berserk following utterly trivial disagreements. One left his victim brain damaged on a life support machine. The other (miraculously) caused less physical damage, but used a weapon on a semiconscious victim and displayed the same murderous intent.

Both acted on the spur of the moment and in front of several witnesses. They'd had a few beers, but weren't drunk. What was a life changing realisation for me, was their absolute calm indifference two minutes later. Whatever it is that constitutes a genuine human being, just wasn't there. Both were slightly below average intelligence and were already facing courts martial on unrelated charges.

The strangest thing was that they both went back to camp at the end of the night. I could understand scaling the fence and trying to slip into the block to grab any essential items from your locker, but these guys walked through the front gate and were grabbed on the spot. If I'd just committed an attempted murder in front of a room full of people who could name me, I'd be in immediate E&E mode. They had no sense of self preservation whatsoever.
Most prisoners or patients with the narcissistic/ anti-social/ psychopathic type PDs are of below average intelligence. Whilst there are the odd exceptions the idea of a super intelligent criminal psychopath is generally a fiction.

More intelligent people with these diagnoses tend to find legal (if sometimes toxic) methods for their behaviours to play out.
 
How do you simply go and sign out a sub machine gun and live ammo from the armoury?
Well that was reasonably easy as an NCO Training instructor at a recruit training Depot, and as to having gash ammo well again that was easy.
He was one of my Section Commanders at Glencorse in 1984 and was always a little withdrawn, looking back on it the pay run was always an easy target but what he did was horrific.
 
I reckon that CO was a lucky man and not around when Walker went Tonto.
I was attached to the Royal Scots in Werl as Rear Link Sgt when this atrocity hit the News. In the main, it was an embarrassment to the Battalion, but shockingly, there were a number of Jocks who openly put this piece of excrement on a pedestal. Clearly heard in the NAAFI Bar, to my astonishment (I was BOS at the time).
He had apparently had a good tour in the COP and the Depot was a way of getting him ready to come back to the Battalion as a Pl Sgt. He was in all fairness a good instructor.
 
Whilst there are the odd exceptions the idea of a super intelligent criminal psychopath is generally a fiction.

More intelligent people with these diagnoses tend to find legal (if sometimes toxic) methods for their behaviours to play out.
Yup. Music industry, photocopier sales (back in the day), senior bankers, etc... if they're smart, they make their money legally.

Think of the most toxic leader you've ever encountered.
 
Whatever it is that constitutes a genuine human being, just wasn't there. Both were slightly below average intelligence and were already facing courts martial on unrelated charges.

But they are genuine human beings.

Between 1% and 2% of the worlds population suffer from anitsocial behaviour disorder. It isn't as unusual as people would like to think
 

syrup

LE
I don’t think I’ve ever met a Herc pilot who didn’t quietly let slip the “fact” that they’d been on the Herc SF Flight. In the case of a couple of them, having seen them operate, I’d guess the biggest threat to Them would not have been whatever shit kicked off when they got there, it’d have been the getting there.

So yes, that club is alive, well and equally overflowing with Walts.

Slightly off topic
Watched the making of Top Gun the other week and they were interviewing the instructors who did the flying.
There were only 18 instructors at Miramar when the film was made
They used to open up the base on a Thursday to locals for the bop and stuff

After the film came out there was suddenly about 500 instructors cutting about in flight suits and patches at the bop and in the local area
The pilots used to stand at the back and have a laugh and have a laugh at some of the antics going on
 
Slightly off topic
Watched the making of Top Gun the other week and they were interviewing the instructors who did the flying.
There were only 18 instructors at Miramar when the film was made
They used to open up the base on a Thursday to locals for the bop and stuff

After the film came out there was suddenly about 500 instructors cutting about in flight suits and patches at the bop and in the local area
The pilots used to stand at the back and have a laugh and have a laugh at some of the antics going on
When l was working in Norfolk VA l used to frequent a diner across from the naval base because it served decent food compared to the typical chain restaurants in the area. The thing that got me was the number of patrons wearing flight jackets adorned with the squadron, deployment, air wing, etc patches. The second time l was there l asked the waitress if this was a pilots hangout and she replied no, if you look at their chests you won’t see any wings, they’re all just sailors trying their hardest to look cool.....
 
But they are genuine human beings.

Between 1% and 2% of the worlds population suffer from anitsocial behaviour disorder. It isn't as unusual as people would like to think

It's an entirely subjective viewpoint on my part (and I'm no doubt wrong on every scientific level).

I'd met plenty of wicked and dangerous men prior to those incidents, but on both those nights, I felt like I'd come face to face with members of an alien species who simply looked like humans.

Between 1% and 2% of the worlds population suffer from anitsocial behaviour disorder. It isn't as unusual as people would like to think.

Certain professions attract those individuals. Based on personal experience, some army units contained well above the national average. The stupid ones were more likely to leave via MCTC within a few years, the cleverer ones were better adapted to their environment and won promotion.
 
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