And now the Dutch!!!!!

Dutch say 'No' to EU constitution

Jubilant "No" supporters include the Socialist Party
Voters in the Netherlands have overwhelmingly rejected the proposed European Union constitution.
Projections based on more than half the ballots cast in the referendum indicate that at least 62% voted against the treaty and about 38% supported it.

Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, who had urged a "Yes" vote, says he will respect the result.

The vote deals what could be a decisive blow to the constitution, which had also been rejected by French voters.

Mr Balkenende said he was "very disappointed" with the result but he said his government would honour the vote, which was consultative rather than legally binding.

The Dutch parliament is widely expected to endorse it when it meets on Thursday.

The Dutch people have spoken tonight. Naturally I am very disappointed

Jan-Peter Balkenende
Dutch Prime Minister
Turnout is reported to have been as high as 62%, more than the double the level politicians said was needed for the vote to be accepted as the public's verdict on the treaty.

Mr Balkenende said that despite the result, the ratification process should continue in other countries.

This was echoed in Germany by Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.

Nine countries have backed the constitution. It needs to be approved by the EU's 25 member states to become law.

Popular discontent

One of the leading "no" campaigners in the Netherlands, right-wing politician Geert Wilders, told journalists he had not expected such a decisive result - which exceeded poll predictions.

"I am extremely happy with it," he said.


Dutch 'No' in quotes
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"If you realise that two-thirds of parliament supported the constitution and two out of three people in the land are against, it means a lot is wrong in the country."

The BBC's Geraldine Coughlan in The Hague says many voters feel that Brussels has too much power and that their national politicians are not protecting them enough.

"No" supporters are also afraid of Brussels interfering in their liberal policies on soft drugs and gay marriage, they are disillusioned with the single currency, the Euro, and some disagree on rapid EU enlargement, our correspondent adds.

The centre-right government and major opposition parties had supported the draft constitution and argued that it would enhance Dutch influence in Europe.

The document was signed last year, after lengthy negotiations between members states.

It brings together for the first time the many treaties and agreements on which the EU is based. It defines the powers of the EU, stating where it can and cannot act and where the member states retain their right of veto.

It also defines the role of the EU institutions.

The constitution was rejected by 55% of French voters in a referendum on Sunday.
Dutch say pissh off

It gets better and better :wink:
As pleased as I am (along with millions of others) that the Dutch and French have done the right thing, I've still got the sneaking suspicion that all the unsavoury bits of this sh*te Constitution will be introduced "peu a peu" via the back door. We're not out of the woods yet!
maninblack said:
You have to like a country that eats chips and frit sauce.
And smoke weed and not look like a leper/chav/crim/dosser/tory party member

Well done Holland. A nice "Up yours Eurocrats"
What I find interesting is that everyone has a different but equally valid (from their own POV) reason for rejecting the treaty. Too left for us, too right for the French and not liberal enough for the Dutch (probably too liberal for someone else). The whole idea of one set of (fairly detailed) rules for all these disparate countries is finaly being shown as invalid.
The Europhiles say the present situation can't work with 25 members, why not? Is it perhaps because their desire for ever greater meddling becomes more difficult to accomplish?
the dutch know that a constitution sets out the rights you get in exchange for giving up your right to use lethal force to the state. smart (tall, porn guzzling dope heded cheeze eating lager popping) orangemen
if they wanted a united europe they should have left hitler to it,seriously,good luck to the dutch,great friendly people
i love em too. hitler had 'europe will win' as a slogan hanging from the walls in conquered cities, long before the eurocrats dreameed up their nonsense

Mr Happy

Bloody rollocks. I live here in the 'Dam and the smart cloggies are completely pizzt off with the vote. Seriously, yesterday was Herring day (tip head back and swallow) and today was the vote. All the managers were pro europe and all the workers were anti. Its an intelligence thing.. Euro is the way forwards nationalism is for the people that have fck all else. Anyone that is anti europe is pro Murdoch and anyone that is anti murdoch is anti american. weakness dammit weakness.
Here's a thought. Just how many European rules are there? How many 'directives' have been formulated in the entire bloated, 25 nation, multi-language, corpulent superstate? Directives that decide the detail of the daily lives of hundreds of millions of people, directives that decide what they eat, when they work and what they wear.

Now ask yourself, when did a single European citizen ever vote on any of those rules?

The Eurocrats have become complacent. So much water has flowed under the European bridge, so much power has incrementally been shifted to Brussels, that they forgot about the people. The people became an irrelevance, they were never consulted, were voiceless and powerless. What harm then in token referenda about the Constitition? The people will surely do as they are told, as supinely as they have for the past thirty years..

These 'No' Votes are not votes against the Constitution because most Europeans don't understand the detail of it anyway. These 'No' Votes are the people of Europe having a say on the Union for the first time ever.

That is the true scandal.

Mr Happy

Awol said:
These 'No' Votes are not votes against the Constitution because most Europeans don't understand the detail of it anyway. These 'No' Votes are the people of Europe having a say on the Union for the first time ever.

That is the true scandal.
yeah. whatever. do you know the demographics of the vote? Cos it'll screw your argument good'n'proper.
Provisional results:

61.6% No
38.4% Yes

Turnout = 62.8%, pending some postal ballots

"Yes" camp
Christian Democrats (CDA), largest government party, plus coalition partners VVD and D66
Labour (PVDA) and Green Left opposition parties
"No" camp
Right-wing Pim Fortuyn party
Socialist Party
ChristienUnie and SGP, Christian parties

It appears that arrogance was a big reason for it.

"The message from France and the Netherlands is that they are unhappy with the way Europe is being built," says Michiel van Hulten, a leader of the Better Europe foundation and a former MEP.

"People are unhappy with the fact that Europe is a project of the elite, not the ordinary people.

For more details:
Ho ho ho. Mr. Happy, like most Euro-Loons, JUST CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Anything that doesn't go their meddling/ centralizing/ domineering/ undemocratic way must be an abberation by a gullible, bone-headed electorate who shouldn't be trusted with a vote.

Watch if they'd won it by a fraction of a percent: it would have been "a defining victory for the European Project" and a "Vindication of our shared European Destiny."

The EU dreamt up by the old men who grew up in the ruins of WW2 and implemented by totally unaccountable elites (Mandelson, Patten, The Kinnocks...are these really the people you want to be in political bed with?) is deader than a dead thing with a knife sticking out of it's head. Deal with it.

Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!



Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Its interesting that those in favour of the constitution accuse those who voted no of not understanding the issues. Is the same also true in Spain where the population is in favour, or do the Spainish have some special insight that the rest of us don't have?

I understand what the constitution is about, and I'm against it. i don't want Euro institutions and thier powers to be defined the way laid out in the constitution. I don't want any Euro instutions, beyond a standing conference wher they hash out free trade issues, and I don't want them to have any power at all.

I'm reasoanbly in favour of a Free Trade area, but I don't see why it should be limited to Festung Europa.

I'd rather be a member of NAFTA or the Commonwealth or both.

Its odd that the 2 richest European countries are not members of the EU.

I don't find it all that reassuring that big business and the bosses are in favour of the constution.

I must say that its bloody decent of the Dutch PM to say that he is prepared to respect the result of the referendum. Its a bit of a novelty in euro politics.

So Vive la France! and Well done the Dutch! (Sorry I don't know any Dutch, but in my experience they speak better English than the majority a Brits)
But why is our press giving El Presidente Blairo such an easy ride?. He's promised us a vote on the constitution whatever the result of any other vote, but it the (beaten) French and Dutch politicos that are saying that democracy must go on and remaining countries should still vote.

Timetable for remaining votes (last opinion poll, for, against incl probables), each No vote has hardened towards polling day so far)

10/07/05 - Luxembourg - no polls, reported as drifting to No.
27/09/05 - Denmark (May 05 : 56-32)
Late 2005 - Ireland (Nov 04 : 28- 5)
Late 2005 - Portugal (Nov 04 : 40- 7)
Apr-Jun 2006 - UK (Feb 05 : 39-39 using actual question)
Jun 2006 ? - Czech Republic (May 05 : 58-26)
No date set - Poland (Feb 05 : 64-7)

All extracted from BBC

With the honourable exception of Spain, those that have ratified so far have been Parliamentary/Presidential decisions, so the people haven't spoken. Granted that the general opinion was fairly pro in most countries, but that was without debate. What has been obvious in the last few weeks was how the various politicians contradict each other simply to secure another Yes vote. The EU is operating a 'divide & conquer' strategy here.

We all know that TCB is a devious, twisting, lying, two-faced, smarmy, lying (again, just to show how often), dishonest, faithless, disloyal (cronies excepted), double-dealing, cunning, treachorous, untrustworthy, mendacious, insincere, cheating, fraudulent, snake-oil salesman type. Isn't the Thesaurus wonderful, superb, excellent, etc?

Should he/they be allowed to get away with this ?. Give me my vote - I'll care a great deal if I'm out-voted, but I want my tuppenyworth, not TCB's hand-me-downs.

pause for coffee to mark anniversary of Coronation.
I would like to ask some questions about causes of 2 NO's

1. Maybe French and Dutch don't want to live in EU?
2. Maybe they don't like direction of EU's development?
3. Maybe this particular variant of constitution is bad and better varian would be approved?
4. What about another causes?

Personally I think that #2 is the most probable cause.
Mr Happy said:
Its an intelligence thing.. Euro is the way forwards nationalism is for the people that have fck all else.
Interesting thought....I would suggest you are wrong, from personal experience and working in a company where 25% of the employees have PhDs or Masters degrees, and of the rest 50% have a Bachelors degree....and a quick straw poll in the building puts us at about 60% against the EU refurendum....and of those who have said they have read it it's about 80% against.

I'll think you'll find it is an intelligence thing....and people are more intelligent than you give them credit for..


Mr Happy

Lasalle said:
Mr Happy Wrote:

Anyone that is anti europe is pro Murdoch and anyone that is anti murdoch is anti american.
What absolute nonsense.
Quite possibly - I was trollyed last night. What I suspect I was trying to say is that public opinion in the UK was down to Murdoch forming the coalition of anti-European newspaper editors sometime ago (ten years?) on the back of Maxwell's launching 'The European' fifteen years ago.

Since then public opinion driven by the mass newspapers has moved more and more anti european. Your opinions are not your own. Has anyone actually read a pro-european story in a newspaper? Because there are lots of pro's and even the most anti-european person can admit that but... and this is the but... you can admit it but not read it in a newspaper.

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