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an interesting site

#2
Dont get me started on (toooo late) these f***ing people.
The network is run by Jill Marshall-Andrews wife of Bob Marshall-Andrews who is a labour MP...nough said?
At the time of the post Dunblane gun ban the GCN was said to have 7 members!
Having been one of the fifty seven thousand people that lost full bore target pistol shooting I really don't wish to spoil a good evening in with Mrs Tombs commentating on these people, I shall leave that to others who can perhaps give a more reasoned debate that I ever can when I think of that witch Mrs Marshall-Andrews.
 
#3
The GCN has at best guess (Last I heard) somewhere between 1 to 10 members. Yet it is still allowed a place on the governments research thingy in to fire arms, yet groups like the BASA and other pro-fire arms groups had to fight like crazy to get on there.

Wasn't there some bust up a year or two ago where they invited the mother of someone who had been shot to speak at one of their rallies. The Mum stood up and gave a sensible view that it's not all guns, it's just illegally owned guns that are the problem, and she was thrown out or something... Bit like Mr Wolfgang earlier this year.

So In summary it's about as impartial about a right wing church nutter movement when talking about homosexuality.
 
#4
Henry_Tombs said:
Dont get me started on (toooo late) these f***ing people.
The network is run by Jill Marshall-Andrews wife of Bob Marshall-Andrews who is a labour MP...nough said?
At the time of the post Dunblane gun ban the GCN was said to have 7 members!
Having been one of the fifty seven thousand people that lost full bore target pistol shooting I really don't wish to spoil a good evening in with Mrs Tombs commentating on these people, I shall leave that to others who can perhaps give a more reasoned debate that I ever can when I think of that witch Mrs Marshall-Andrews.
Is this the same Jill Marshall-Andrews who came out with something along the lines of: "In a truly civilised society, we should be able place our protection in the hands of the police"?
My first thought when I read that was: "In a truly civilised society we wouldn't NEED to place our protection in the hands of the Old Bill". But maybe that's just me.
Completey misguided crackpots, in my view. The world we live in is becoming less, and not more, civilised, thus we need MORE guns in society and not fewer!
Teach everybody about guns and their dangers, have them pass a course and let them take care of their own protection. There's no other way! All the kick-arse videos have changed our world forever and the problems in connection with that won't go away simply because gobments fail to address them in a responsible way.

I recall when I lived in St Gallen, Switzerland (about 1990) and was standing in a queue at the bank. Some junky scrote decided he was going to pull a heist, whipped out a heater and stuck it up the teller's schnozz - only to hear slides being racked and pistols being penissed (to get around the censor thingy) and to find himself immediately fazed down by 9 (nine!!!) handguns that emerged from all sorts of holsters worn by others in the queue (and at least three of them were 1911s, as far as I could tell).
Result? One scruffy scrote meekly figuring that doing a "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" is not a healthy career move. Nuff sedd! :D :D :D

MsG
 
#5
Bugsy7 said:
I recall when I lived in St Gallen, Switzerland (about 1990) and was standing in a queue at the bank. Some junky scrote decided he was going to pull a heist, whipped out a heater and stuck it up the teller's schnozz - only to hear slides being racked and pistols being penissed (to get around the censor thingy) and to find himself immediately fazed down by 9 (nine!!!) handguns that emerged from all sorts of holsters worn by others in the queue (and at least three of them were 1911s, as far as I could tell).
Result? One scruffy scrote meekly figuring that doing a "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" is not a healthy career move. Nuff sedd! :D :D :D

MsG
It is impossible to find something like this in textbooks for those who learn English.

Junky scrote... teller's schozz... scruffy scrote... Excellent!
 
#6
Bugsy said: Is this the same Jill Marshall-Andrews who came out with something along the lines of: "In a truly civilised society, we should be able place our protection in the hands of the police"?

Cheeky cow, her husband is the Labour MP for Chav Central (Chatham) where the poor old plod are totally scuppered by Scratters. If you walk down Chatham or Gillingham High street and screw your eyes up (only a bit, mind) you are actually in Wacko Jacko's Thriller video, ghouls and all.
 
#7
@ all,

Now you know why I stayed in Germany after I left the Army. I still have my weapon's!!!!

This is not a brag, just a fact.

Tony
 
#8
I just love the way they come out with total bolox for their case, and put forward opinions without proof whereas if the gun-control lobby said something like "guns in the hands of responsible people are safe" you would get an outcry of "OMG NOES THE GUN NUTS ARE GONNA PSYKO!!11!!"

I used to be totally anti gun and i still am against them being used for self defence, however i see no reason why we cant own a gun if i can own a bow and arrow or a sword or even a knife, they were both designed for killing as well but you dont hear about sword rampages constantly (i dont own either by the way(

Actually WAIT A MINUTE you hear about knives constantly on the news! lets ban those! Sorry to stick up for 'the air soft walts' but their sport is getting kicked out basically by the VCR bill because of these raving old loonies.
 
#10
I remember hearing from an Australian that when they made guns illegal there crime went up, no matter what laws you put on criminals will always have illegal weapons with no serial numbers or licenses.
 
#11
toemag said:
@ all,

Now you know why I stayed in Germany after I left the Army. I still have my weapon's!!!!

This is not a brag, just a fact.

Tony
Extremely wise move. Although even there, it's becoming increasingly difficult due to the increasing numbers joining the I'm-more-enlightened-than-you-brigade (sprich: "Theoretischer Laberverein").

MsG
 
#13
Bugsy7 said:
toemag said:
@ all,

Now you know why I stayed in Germany after I left the Army. I still have my weapon's!!!!

This is not a brag, just a fact.

Tony
Extremely wise move. Although even there, it's becoming increasingly difficult due to the increasing numbers joining the I'm-more-enlightened-than-you-brigade (sprich: "Theoretischer Laberverein").

MsG
But you get that everywhere in the world, universe and further afield. They introduced new law's here a couple of year's ago, supposedly more restrictive, (LMFAO). I just bought (Xmas pressy to myself) a Sabre Defence XR 15 A3 in semi auto, on my Hunting licence, couldn't have done that before the change of law, that was introduced on april fool's day :D .

A big thank's to the peep's who ran the British army Hunting course in 1992. I did the course just prior to getting out.

Tony
 
#14
stoatman said:
toemag said:
@ all,

Now you know why I stayed in Germany after I left the Army. I still have my weapon's!!!!

This is not a brag, just a fact.

Tony
And one of the (many) reasons why I moved away from the UK.

Same here plus for the better climate and to be able to park my car!

I think it received a lot of negative press in the UK back in October when Florida quashed the so-called "Retreat Law". The headlines in the UK was something like "Floridians can now legally shoot British tourists" or some such nonsense.

What it was really about was; a number of years ago Florida brought in a new law, "the Retreat Law", that said if you are threatened with a gun, etc., legally you have to try to run away out of harms way - a typical leftie PC law. But what happened over the next few years was that armed robbery and muggings shot-up (excuse the pun). So the Retreat Law was quashed.

It's very easy to get a concealed weapons permit here in Florida and a lot of people carry a handgun. So now if you are threatened with deadly force your first duty is no longer to run away but you can defend yourself. It's not carte blanche permission to "pop a cap" into the arrse of British tourists if they pish you off, as the media portrayed it back home. If you do defend yourself and shoot a criminal, a long, expensive trial will result and not something you'd want to get into anyway.

The gun laws we had in the UK pre-1986 were pretty damn good with the right balance between legal ownership and protecting the public. What's caused the biggest increase in gun crime in the UK, it has also increased rapidly since 1995, is the relaxation of custom borders in Europe combined with the break-up of the Soviet Union with the resultant flood of Eastern European weapons onto the underground market. But the Government, now they have banned real handguns, blame the gun crime on converted replica and deacts and now want to ban toy guns - what a joke!
 
#15
PsyWar.Org said:
The gun laws we had in the UK pre-1986 were pretty damn good with the right balance between legal ownership and protecting the public. What's caused the biggest increase in gun crime in the UK, it has also increased rapidly since 1995, is the relaxation of custom borders in Europe combined with the break-up of the Soviet Union with the resultant flood of Eastern European weapons onto the underground market. But the Government, now they have banned real handguns, blame the gun crime on converted replica and deacts and now want to ban toy guns - what a joke!
We know that, the cops know that most civvies with a brain cell can work it out.

The anti-gun wignuts and the politicians, they don't know it.

There in lies the problem, their vote counts for more.
 
#16
I've just had a thought!

What if when that bloke in Hungerford started blazing away, scores of people had lugged hunting-rifles, SLRs etc out of their car boots and returned fire?

And would that geezer in Dunblane (was his name Hamilton or something?) have had second thoughts if he'd known that a few of the teachers could have been packing?

I wasn't in the UK when these incidents occurred, so I only had the radio and newspaper reporys to go on. However, I still think that a lot of deaths could have been (theoretically) avoided if strict gun laws had not been in place.
Or am I completely on the wrong track here?

MsG
 
#17
Bugsy7 said:
I've just had a thought!

What if when that bloke in Hungerford started blazing away, scores of people had lugged hunting-rifles, SLRs etc out of their car boots and returned fire?

And would that geezer in Dunblane (was his name Hamilton or something?) have had second thoughts if he'd known that a few of the teachers could have been packing?

I wasn't in the UK when these incidents occurred, so I only had the radio and newspaper reporys to go on. However, I still think that a lot of deaths could have been (theoretically) avoided if strict gun laws had not been in place.
Or am I completely on the wrong track here?

MsG
You are, and you are quoting two infamous incidents, Hungerford (1987) and Dunblane (1996).

Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:

* 373 people in Germany
* 151 people in Canada
* 57 people in Australia
* 19 people in Japan
* 54 people in England and Wales, and
* 11,789 people in the United States

(http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

msr
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#18
I've often felt safer when in countries where people are permitted the ability to protect themselves than in some where they were not.
An armed society is a polite society.

Had the laws in place at the time been properly applied, neither Ryan nor Hamilton would have had legal access to firearms and the Hungerford and Dunblane tragedies could have been averted.

But to state this here on Arrse I think I'm preaching to the converted.
(There will always be some illogical 'thinkers' though.)
 
#20
msr said:
* 373 people in Germany
* 151 people in Canada
* 57 people in Australia
* 19 people in Japan
* 54 people in England and Wales, and
* 11,789 people in the United States

(http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

msr
Thanks very much for the figures and the link, msr. Very interesting. Although I'd have preferred some sort of breakdown in deaths per 100,000 inhabitants, but I don't know how to do that.

I think it's a given that everyone realises handguns cause bad things to happen, but it's also true to say that handguns can also prevent bad things happening. Which goes a little way to explaining why the majority of American States have introduced concealed carry laws.
It puts certain people off trying to obtain valuables by force, since there's a better than average chance they won't be able to take advantage of their ill-gotten gains because they're either wounded or dead.

In America in 2002, handguns were shucked some 2.7 million times to prevent a robbery, but only in something like 7 percent of those cases were the people defending themselves actually injured (I have these figures as a scribbled note to some research I was doing at the time, but I can't find it on the internet any more. I think (but don't nail me on that) it was an NRA site. Y'know "cold, dead hand" Heston stuff? Updates welcome).

It really is high time we took a more mature approach to the whole subject and realise that at the moment we're entering a sort of "Dark Age" of society (they come and go - as history tells us repeatedly). It's pointless to argue that civilisation is a never-ending upward path - we are on the downroad!

We have to arrive at much the same sort of tradeoff/arrangement with weapons as we have with cars on the road (and alcohol, to round off the holisitc theme). We accept a (any) number of deaths in return for the mobility afforded us, but regret the (oftentimes unnecessary) deaths involved.
Basically, the same game.

Working on the same principle as the gun-ban nutters: any M1/M4/M25 50-plus car pile-up (as they occur with depressing regularity every year) should logically lead to a nation-wide ban on cars forthwith and with immediate effect!
But it never happens!!!
That's what we all need with weapons!!!

To dispel any doubts, this is where I stand: I would dearly like to see all weapons and all evidence of man's adversity to man banned from the face of the earth forever. I would dearly like to see brother humans embracing each other, helping each other and being friends.

But it's not going to happen in the forseeable (not sure I've spelled that right) future, so everybody has to be prepared for the worst. Ugly, I know, but my point of view.

MsG
 

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